woops!!!! I have been told I have really upset a Grandchild

Until she died, my mother never once called me by my married name, she always used my single name.

Iam64

bellwetherblue

I’m called silly and I’m the one patronising people? Riiight

What I find silly is old ladies who use being old as an excuse for wilful ignorance and unkindness. You don’t have to understand people to be compassionate toward them.

Well, you’re destined never to change views or influence this ‘silly old lady’ or any of her friends. Patronising rude posts are best ignored. Sadly on this one I failed to follow my own advice

Yes, such ignorant posts are best ignored, Iam64.

After all, 'Trans' goes in both directions, and many females make the long and difficult trans into men. They are now being told they MUST ONLY use womens toilets!!!!

No Franbern, they are told they must not use MEN'S toilets. They are free to use female or single toilets wherever available.

According to the trans barrister speaking on Woman's Hour last week, (copied down while he was speaking) to do so would force trans into additional privacy, which would reveal they are trans.
"There are private facilities so if you are affected by the knowledge there is a transgender person in your group, you, that is a normal person, can use additional facilities so that you are protected."

In other words, if biological women object to the presence of a man identifying as a trans woman , using their facilities, they must leave. This is the nub of the complaint brought against Sandie Peggie, made by a male junior doctor who identifies as a woman in an attempt to get her dismissed, plus mis-gendering him by using the 'wrong' pronouns, which is not compulsory. Also the Darlington Nurses, made to use makeshift accomodation to change.

bellwetherblue

I’m called silly and I’m the one patronising people? Riiight

What I find silly is old ladies who use being old as an excuse for wilful ignorance and unkindness. You don’t have to understand people to be compassionate toward them.

Well, you’re destined never to change views or influence this ‘silly old lady’ or any of her friends. Patronising rude posts are best ignored. Sadly on this one I failed to follow my own advice

With the current change in law I am wondering how many people would react when joining them in their carefully defined Women's toilets, is someone with big biceps and an attractive beard?
After all, 'Trans' goes in both directions, and many females make the long and difficult trans into men. They are now being told they MUST ONLY use womens toilets!!!!

Allira

Allira

bellwetherblue

eazybee

I repeat, again, it is the Law that only biological women may use women's lavatories, changing spaces etc And only biological men in men's spaces.

You failed to answer any of my questions eazybee.

Again: Which of the people pictured in my post is trans?

More importantly: What danger do trans people present in communal spaces that make you so determined to keep them out?

And here’s a new one: What if you substituted ‘black’ or ‘Asian’ for ‘trans’ and declared that black and Asian people are not welcome or legally not allowed in certain spaces? Is it still OK?

What a daft post.

And here’s a new one: What if you substituted ‘black’ or ‘Asian’ for ‘trans’ and declared that black and Asian people are not welcome or legally not allowed in certain spaces? Is it still OK?

I'll try to answer it anyway.

If a black or Asian man tried to use the women's loos and changing rooms, he would be no more welcome than a Caucasian man.

What a daft answer. My question wasn’t about men in women’s bathrooms. My question was about prejudice, racism and bigotry. Never mind, you have shown me who you are.

As for the ridiculous peanut gallery cheering on all this nastiness, enjoy your five minutes of self-righteousness, I guess.

oldenough2knowbetter, if you genuinely believe someone who was born with a penis and has chosen to openly live their life as the gender they know they are inside is using public bathrooms so they can sexually assault women, and yet you’re not scared to be on a train or in an office or on a public street with actual men, then I don’t know what to tell you.

You are all very fortunate that you were born the right sex. It’s a shame not a single one of you is compassionate enough to live and let live.

bellwetherblue

I’m called silly and I’m the one patronising people? Riiight

What I find silly is old ladies who use being old as an excuse for wilful ignorance and unkindness. You don’t have to understand people to be compassionate toward them.

I'll ignore the rudeness of that post but I'll just say that no-one appears to lack compassion.
Nor are they wilfully ignorant or unkind.

They recognise the dangers of men using safe spaces designed for women and young girls, whether that be in society at large or in prisons. The High Court has now recognised this too.
In this case the judges are not asses.

Oh well said butterandjam .

HEAR, HEAR, butterandjam!

We are NEVER going to accept being dictated to and 'put in our place' by male chauvinists!

These 'silly old ladies' were once girls and young women, many of whom - probably the majority of whom - suffered wolf whistles, sexualised language and put-downs shouted in public, groping, grabbing and interfering by strangers, copping an opportunistic feel on the subway/dance floor/church pew - and much worse. There's no stopping the b*st*rds; they still do it today. And, to add the final insult, we STILL don't get equal pay.

That's why we'll keep fighting for WOMEN'S RIGHTS, bellwetherblue. You keep trying to water down or divert our argument: we're not listening to your puerile bilge.

bellwetherblue

I’m called silly and I’m the one patronising people? Riiight

What I find silly is old ladies who use being old as an excuse for wilful ignorance and unkindness. You don’t have to understand people to be compassionate toward them.

Old women have lived experience of being publically importuned by the unwanted attentions and interference of the kind of men who think it's their right.

Many younger women have absolutely NO CLUE what struggles we faced to gain whatever autonomy and security we have now.

We are NEVER going to accept being dictated to and put in our place by male chauvinist who once had a penis, or anyone else who takes for granted what we fought for and earned for women.

Excellent answer Allira .

Allira

bellwetherblue

eazybee

I repeat, again, it is the Law that only biological women may use women's lavatories, changing spaces etc And only biological men in men's spaces.

You failed to answer any of my questions eazybee.

Again: Which of the people pictured in my post is trans?

More importantly: What danger do trans people present in communal spaces that make you so determined to keep them out?

And here’s a new one: What if you substituted ‘black’ or ‘Asian’ for ‘trans’ and declared that black and Asian people are not welcome or legally not allowed in certain spaces? Is it still OK?

What a daft post.

And here’s a new one: What if you substituted ‘black’ or ‘Asian’ for ‘trans’ and declared that black and Asian people are not welcome or legally not allowed in certain spaces? Is it still OK?

I'll try to answer it anyway.

If a black or Asian man tried to use the women's loos and changing rooms, he would be no more welcome than a Caucasian man.

bellwetherblue

eazybee

I repeat, again, it is the Law that only biological women may use women's lavatories, changing spaces etc And only biological men in men's spaces.

You failed to answer any of my questions eazybee.

Again: Which of the people pictured in my post is trans?

More importantly: What danger do trans people present in communal spaces that make you so determined to keep them out?

And here’s a new one: What if you substituted ‘black’ or ‘Asian’ for ‘trans’ and declared that black and Asian people are not welcome or legally not allowed in certain spaces? Is it still OK?

What a daft post.

Just remind the GC that they are not exceptional . Many people take new names for a variety of reasons, and sometimes people who knew them before just accidentally slip back into the old name/title/ID.

Common for people who changed their names, titles, and social status in adulthood . You can probably offer that example from your own experience, marriage. Marriage (for any gender) is a public declaration to society that changes everything, right?

It announces " From here on in, my social /sexual status is committed (and the details are private and off-limits)."

When people call me Miss (or Sir, has happened) or use my maiden name, or the totally redundant first name on my formal ID, they don't intend any slight or insult at all. It doesn't matter a jot because I am totally, rock certain of my innermost self.

When someone is totally sure of themselves, who and what they are, then any third party slip of name/pronoun/title is completely irrelevent.

and before you try to turn that back on me, yes, I do feel compassion for older people who feel left behind and confused and unable to keep up with the rapid pace of change in the world. It must be very frightening, especially when you suspect younger people find you tiresome and quaint but you don’t really know why. I’m sad for you.

But you have years of life experience that should have taught you to accept, or at the very least tolerate, people’s differences, and if you want to have a pleasant relationship with your grandchildren, you really should remember that.

I guess you’ll ignore what I'm saying in favour of writing me off and clinging to “but it’s the law”… but I had to say it anyway.

I’m called silly and I’m the one patronising people? Riiight

What I find silly is old ladies who use being old as an excuse for wilful ignorance and unkindness. You don’t have to understand people to be compassionate toward them.

Have a think about it Bellwetherblue. I'm sure you know what I mean. Meanwhile, do go back to patronising anyone who doesn't agree with you. It won't move your argument on or increase any respect for your views but it might make you feel better.

You've managed to exceed yourself bellwetherblue, your response to my post is even sillier than the questions you've asked.

Oh shhh, Smileless, be a dear.

IMO your questions are just silly bellwetherblue which is probably why they've not been answered.

eazybee

You may call the law an ass, but it remains the law.

Still not seeing any of my questions answered.

Hardly surprising as I suppose they are a bit uncomfy for you.

Aveline

bellwetherblue do you ever check the media reports on trans identifying men in women's bathrooms and changing rooms?

I’m not sure what you mean by trans identifying men?

You may call the law an ass, but it remains the law.

bellwetherblue do you ever check the media reports on trans identifying men in women's bathrooms and changing rooms?

eazybee

I repeat, again, it is the Law that only biological women may use women's lavatories, changing spaces etc And only biological men in men's spaces.

You failed to answer any of my questions eazybee.

Again: Which of the people pictured in my post is trans?

More importantly: What danger do trans people present in communal spaces that make you so determined to keep them out?

And here’s a new one: What if you substituted ‘black’ or ‘Asian’ for ‘trans’ and declared that black and Asian people are not welcome or legally not allowed in certain spaces? Is it still OK?