woops!!!! I have been told I have really upset a Grandchild

theworriedwell

Luckygirl3

I do not think that Franbern used the wrong name or pronoun. She simply referenced a family event in the past at a time when her GC was being her own biological self gender-wise. History cannot be wiped out and people should feel free to reference the past.

People who seek to change their gender should show tolerance to others, just as they ask tolerance from us.

How about if the GC decides to call the old bag, is that ok? I mean if that's how the GC remembers her why shouldn't she?

Oh that's right basic good manners.

What rubbish.

Franbrrn was not calling her DGC an abusive name; se used the birth name and the name they have been known by for many years.

Incidentally, if someone decides they are binary, do they choose a hyphenated name as their future name?

Silverbrooks

Nonsense. If someone changes their name, we should respect that choice and use that name henceforth.

When someone has been married for years and took their spouse's surname but we happened to know them when they were younger and single, we don’t carry on calling them by their former surname, do we?

We do in my family. I have loads of first and second cousins and we always refer to them by their first name and surname.

I use my surname professionally and socially but some people know me by my married name if they are friends or acquaintances of DH.

I also changed my first name, much to my mother's annoyance and it makes me cringe inwardly on the, increasingly rare occasions, that people use my old first name. But I would not make an issue of it.

I think it was bad manners and an over-reaction on the part of your GC to call you out over it.

Allira

The original name is the one on the birth certificate unless it has been changed by deed poll.

Is the DGC going to be this upset every time someone in officialdom uses the name by which they were registered? What is on their passport, driving licence etc?

Atm we don't know if the name has been changed officially? Too much we don't know - is GC at college? work? How old?

I'm sorry you were made to feel guilty by this innocent error. I find it increasingly difficult to keep up with all the appropriate terms, and am regularly told off by DD for using inapprorpriate language. You are not allowed to call a child a cheeky monkey now, it's cheeky munchkin, but I sometimes forget. One of our grandchilden had a teeshirt years ago saying 'daddy's cheeky monkey' from when they were small, and I see nothing wrong with this, but of course I wouldn't would I as somebody famously said. I think more courtest should be given to a memeber of the older generation when slip-ups like this happen, as they will. Describing a person as 'black' was deemd the hight of rudeness when I was young, we said a 'coloured person' which of course sounds hidious now, but that was what we were brought up to say and thought it respectful. We have to accept these changes and most are definitely for the better but as you get older, it's easy to forget the rules.

I think Franbern has been very generous and caring in sending a card with an apology for an unintentional error. I hope the rest of the family are as generous to her accepting that we all make mistakes.

The original name is the one on the birth certificate unless it has been changed by deed poll.

Is the DGC going to be this upset every time someone in officialdom uses the name by which they were registered? What is on their passport, driving licence etc?

Perhaps instead of trying to work out whether it was "right or wrong" in some general sense to use the original name,

just perhaps see it in terms of a particular situation, which is that the GD felt it was denying her current choices

and the best family outcome is to accept matters as they are without making too much of the situation; the card was a good idea and I hope it works for you Franbern.

theworriedwell

Doodledog

Nonsense. If someone changes their name, we should respect that choice and use that name henceforth.
Who says?

I would if it were my grandchild, and I do use changed names for other people, but I refuse to believe (or condone) the notion that they are not of the sex they were born. They are, and always will be, whatever they 'feel' to be the case.

I really dislike the 'no debate' narrative - people are absolutely allowed to question diktats like this. It's easier not to do so where grandchildren are concerned (and dare I say that it is often the case that people claiming NB status often have fragile MH, which further complicates things) but it is not 'nonsense' to raise objections, and occasionally forgetting is perfectly forgivable, IMO.

It is everyone's right to be called by the name they choose. Regardless of how they feel about their gender. That's why once we are adults we can simply and easily change it. If you accidentally get it wrong apologise. Not with a sparky woops!!! though.

No, perhaps it should have been spelt Whoops.

But I was too polite to say so, Franbern is upset enough as it is.

Doodledog

*Nonsense. If someone changes their name, we should respect that choice and use that name henceforth.*
Who says?

I would if it were my grandchild, and I do use changed names for other people, but I refuse to believe (or condone) the notion that they are not of the sex they were born. They are, and always will be, whatever they 'feel' to be the case.

I really dislike the 'no debate' narrative - people are absolutely allowed to question diktats like this. It's easier not to do so where grandchildren are concerned (and dare I say that it is often the case that people claiming NB status often have fragile MH, which further complicates things) but it is not 'nonsense' to raise objections, and occasionally forgetting is perfectly forgivable, IMO.

It is everyone's right to be called by the name they choose. Regardless of how they feel about their gender. That's why once we are adults we can simply and easily change it. If you accidentally get it wrong apologise. Not with a sparky woops!!! though.

Luckygirl3

I do not think that Franbern used the wrong name or pronoun. She simply referenced a family event in the past at a time when her GC was being her own biological self gender-wise. History cannot be wiped out and people should feel free to reference the past.

People who seek to change their gender should show tolerance to others, just as they ask tolerance from us.

How about if the GC decides to call the old bag, is that ok? I mean if that's how the GC remembers her why shouldn't she?

Oh that's right basic good manners.

I think it's a matter of good manners. As a child my family used an abbreviation of my name that I hate, yo the point I feel distressed if it's used. At 11 I told everyone I wanted to use a different abbreviation. 60 years later some still ignore my feelings. I'm not trans or gender neutral but I have a right to my own name.

How very harsh and unnecessary.

You sent a faux apology as you still think you are right - as per your update in page 2

No, your gc and family do not have thin skin, do you know how hard is for trans and LGBT to express themselves and assert their rights in this world?

Your age has nothing to do to justify your behaviour - please do not use it in front of them

Luminance

It is usually prudent to prioritise the mental health of others over your own uninvited opinions. Keep your own doorstep clean first as my mother always said.

It was not an opinion

It was an anecdote fondly remembered from the past.

It is usually prudent to prioritise the mental health of others over your own uninvited opinions. Keep your own doorstep clean first as my mother always said.

I do not think that Franbern used the wrong name or pronoun. She simply referenced a family event in the past at a time when her GC was being her own biological self gender-wise. History cannot be wiped out and people should feel free to reference the past.

People who seek to change their gender should show tolerance to others, just as they ask tolerance from us.

Well said Doodledog.

Nonsense. If someone changes their name, we should respect that choice and use that name henceforth.
Who says?

I would if it were my grandchild, and I do use changed names for other people, but I refuse to believe (or condone) the notion that they are not of the sex they were born. They are, and always will be, whatever they 'feel' to be the case.

I really dislike the 'no debate' narrative - people are absolutely allowed to question diktats like this. It's easier not to do so where grandchildren are concerned (and dare I say that it is often the case that people claiming NB status often have fragile MH, which further complicates things) but it is not 'nonsense' to raise objections, and occasionally forgetting is perfectly forgivable, IMO.

BrandyGran

I think it’s a case of wanting to feel accepted by their much loved grandmother. When you used their former name the thought going through this very mixed up gd ‘s mind was probably “ Gran doesn’t understand me and I’m hurt that she doesn’t”. You did the right thing to send a card and the next time you see them give them a hug and say nothing. I don’t understand any of this changing sex and think most of it is an attempt to try to feel happier with one’s life.

I don’t understand any of this changing sex

No-one can change sex.
Some people prefer to change gender but they cannot change sex. It is immutable.

misguided attempt

I think it’s a case of wanting to feel accepted by their much loved grandmother. When you used their former name the thought going through this very mixed up gd ‘s mind was probably “ Gran doesn’t understand me and I’m hurt that she doesn’t”. You did the right thing to send a card and the next time you see them give them a hug and say nothing. I don’t understand any of this changing sex and think most of it is an attempt to try to feel happier with one’s life.

This is so tedious, thank God my Grandchildren are not a lot of Primadonnas.
The Grandmother made a error in the name, so what, does it really need a upset Grandaugher and a hand ringing Mother saying how upset she is. If it was me I would be telling my teen child to get over it and it's not all about them and Gran made a mistake that's all.

The conversation about being a bridesmaid was past tense therefore your recollection was purely reminiscent. You have upset your DD and GC unintentionally and sent a card to say sorry.
What more do they want you are their beloved family not a stranger. They need to put their feelings aside and move on you cannot be saying sorry forever.

Silverbrooks

Nonsense. If someone changes their name, we should respect that choice and use that name henceforth.

When someone has been married for years and took their spouse's surname but we happened to know them when they were younger and single, we don’t carry on calling them by their former surname, do we?

Surely a bit different when the name was used in the context of the person being 4 years old, many years before the name-change.

I would hope so. The ‘gender’ thing is remarkably one-sided though. Millennia of tradition and accepted terms of reference (eg ‘she’, ‘her’, ‘woman’, ‘mother’) are swept aside because of ‘feelings’ about being the ‘wrong’ sex. And woe betide anyone who doesn’t go along with it.

Families are precious, and it’s very rarely worth falling out with them, so I would do what it takes to keep things on an even keel, but I do find the whole thing exasperating.