woops!!!! I have been told I have really upset a Grandchild

I have often seen it in autistic adolescence. It's completely understandable that for people who struggle with change, which is almost all of them, the bodily changes of puberty are extremely unwelcome. Of course they don't want breasts and periods and the inevitable chat at school about relationships. For concrete thinkers, gender neutrality seems logical. Others may take it to extremes and go for surgery. This is very sad as, with support, they can make to adult life without going to these lengths. Various dangerous websites promote gender realignment etc and also, tragically, anorexia as a way of holding on to a child's body. Very sad.

The tail seems to wag the dog these days Sarnia.
I feel sorry for your young granddaughter who was treated shabbily in my opinion.

Aveline, I 'm interested in your explanation and I hope you would write more about gender neutrality , and concrete thinkers.

I have been puzzling about the difference between someone who wants to be free of gender stereotyping and someone who wants to change their body. Do these have different causes?

I mean, free- thinking people all want liberation from gender stereotyping whenever possible.

Aveline

I have often seen it in autistic adolescence. It's completely understandable that for people who struggle with change, which is almost all of them, the bodily changes of puberty are extremely unwelcome. Of course they don't want breasts and periods and the inevitable chat at school about relationships. For concrete thinkers, gender neutrality seems logical. Others may take it to extremes and go for surgery. This is very sad as, with support, they can make to adult life without going to these lengths. Various dangerous websites promote gender realignment etc and also, tragically, anorexia as a way of holding on to a child's body. Very sad.

Interesting insights there.

Its actually more or less exactly what a MH psychologist of 25 years experience gave as her opinion on the "why's" to me when it was discussed (I'm not personally involved in any way)
what she said, and is most significant, is the amount of support to discuss and understand the issues is grossly lacking for these young people.

Puberty blockers are banned on the NHS indefinitely until 18 years old. And then long waiting lists.

Surgery very, very rare.

But the private sector is different.

Is injections to stop periods a puberty blocker? I suspect not. It can't be healthy though.

My relative started her periods aged 11 and then having the injections aged 13 when she announced she was transitioning (2020).

I have been puzzling about the difference between someone who wants to be free of gender stereotyping and someone who wants to change their body. Do these have different causes?

One can progress to the other. My adult GC started off wanting to be neutral and is now on testosterone. They have been on the pill to curtail periods since age 13.

You described the bridesmaids activity and their name when they did that action. I probably wouldn't have apologized.

Oh my goodness, what a sad state of affairs when members of your family cannot get over themselves and consider your age and just what you have experienced and witnessed through out your life, this being probably the most insignificant!

You have probably done the right thing by apologising, keeping the peace is priceless nowadays it would seem.
Just do a great big eye roll when no one else is looking.
🙄

Well you have done it, apologised to the eggshell generation over nothing. Probably best because they all sound so politically correct a dose of reality might kill them.
Scientifically about 1% are poised between sexes and therefore deserve respect and consideration; they are not the army of young attention seekers who have to be danced around. You were in the right but don't need the aggravation saying so would cause. Respect.

I must say that I am so glad that I am in my 80's now and not a teenager or young person. Horrible times to live in and not helped at all by older people refusing to understand the pressures on such youngsters.

Bad enough, the real concerns about jobs, exams, finding somewhere to live, etc. etc. but also the constant nagging worry about climate change, etc. and then added to this mix, the strange meglomaniac, narcissitic world leaders around at present.

I was fortunate to grow up in a world - coming out of the shadow of war - looked with hope towards the future. Yes, I was very scared of 'the bomb' in my teenage years and marched (more like a shuffle usually) against it and against Apartheid, Colonialism, etc. But......we really had belief and hope that (provided the world was not blown up by our generation of world leaders), thing for everyone would get better.

As my body changed during those early teenage years, It was taught to me that this was normal and I really enjoyed the lovely clothes I was able to wear (most of them made by me and my mum), in the fifties - no thought as to whether or not I was a girl, becoming a woman, I did hate my large breasts back then, for sometime wearing clothes at least one or two sizes to big to hide them. Took me a long time to 'grow into them' as it were. I enjoyed wolf whistles (never felt intimidated by them), never envied male friends for being male. Have always felt rather privileged in being female.

When my first child was born, I actually cried because he was a boy and would never know the wonderful feeling of actually holding in his arms a baby to which he had given birth!!!

I am not sure if I would actually say that I love my grandchildren. I love their parents (well, at least the half of them that are my children), and anything that helps them to be happy is good enough for me. So that 'bubble' of motherly love extends over my g.children.

Yes, I am bewildered, as many of my generation, with all the talk of genders and gender-free, etc. etc. etc. but - I am also bewildered with the mass of technology around now, although I use so much of it every day. I feel rather sorry for these youngsters having to deal with this on top of everything else.

As for my apology - well, totally and completely genuine that I was very sorry for having (unwittingly) upset anyone. HAve been told that my interpretation of the rules in English of 'reporting' speech is wrong - I accept that I must now now NEVER again use the names they were given at birth, but have now chosen other names, as this is 'deadnaming' them.

All is back to being well in the whole family and had a long chat with that particular g.child when I saw them again.

For those of you who have advised me NOT to apologise. Could any of you please tell me what would have been achieved by that. As for respect for my age - I have never understood why just the fact of living long should get respect. Perhaps someone could tell me why that should be . Respect is earned by how one lives, and reacts to others. So, I hope my g.children do have some respect for me - if they do not, perhaps it is my fault than theirs.

It has been said that we do not inherit this planet from our ancestors, but loan it from our grand children. Every generation (back as far as Plato), have moaned about the up and coming generation, often even exactly the same complaints used by the previous generations about them.

So, to sum up. Perhaps our generation need to learn more about and understand more about the gender problems and just to dismiss anything as 'politically correct' to me just shows continuing ignorance.

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Reported

Franbern, should you write about your grandchild again would you use the correct pronoun; the use of they is most confusing, and led me to believe you were writing about two people. The 2010 Equality Act specifically stated that no-one is compelled to use incorrect pronouns.
One of the many myths that has been promoted by people supporting Trans beliefs and used deliberately to cause discomfort in others, as your grandchild did to you.

Franbern I just loved your last post. Lots of things that I would've said myself if I'd thought, and I'm so pleased your apology has been accepted & you're all back on track.
It is a flippin' strange world to grow up in at the moment, agree 100%.

I’m astonished and saddened by the number of posters who think the grandchild and by extension other gender-questioning people are being difficult/ridiculous/disrespectful to others simply because they ask, and then insist, on being referred to by the right name and pronouns.

If you don’t understand how to address a trans or non-binary person, just ask them.

If you don’t understand what being trans/non-binary/agender means, educate yourself.

If you love your trans/NB relative and value your relationship with them, do better. Treat them with extra respect because their life is filled with battles for respect and recognition every single day. Be a safe person for them. Love them for who they are and do your best to understand, accept and support them. Otherwise you may find they can’t deal with your disrespect (and it is disrespect!) and decide it’s too painful to continue a relationship with you.

Signed, a mother of a gender-questioning child who has chosen their own name, and who has worked hard to be the mother they deserve.

If you don’t understand what being trans/non-binary/agender means, educate yourself.
I have educated myself:
The 2010 Equality Act specifically stated that no-one is compelled to use incorrect pronouns.
That is the law.
If people wish to believe they are a different gender that is their choice, but they have no right to impose their choices on me and 'insist' I accept them.

eazybee 👍

eazybee I genuinely don’t understand your attitude about this.

How are you being hurt by someone asking to be addressed as ‘they/them’ or by a name they weren’t given at birth? How are your rights being infringed?

Who are you to declare someone’s pronouns are incorrect?

Who are you to minimise someone’s identity, something which they’ve likely gone through a lot of pain and soul-searching to come to terms with?

You haven’t educated yourself on what it’s like being trans or non-binary. You’ve simply found one sentence in a law designed to protect trans and NB people from being discriminated against and you’ve decided it justifies you clutching your pearls at being asked (compelled… hah) to address them in the manner they want to be addressed.

If you want to latch onto the letter of a law and completely ignore the spirit of it, and jeopardise relationships with your non-gender-conforming friends and relatives just so you can feel the warm glow of 1950s self-righteousness, you do you, I guess.

Where exactly is that spelled out in the 2010 Equality Act, anyway? I couldn’t find anything like that sentence in my quick skim of it. (Am not British, so unfamiliar with that particular legislation)

The Equality Act 2010 does not compel individuals to use someone's preferred pronouns, but it does prohibit discrimination based on gender reassignment. Employers can encourage the use of preferred pronouns but cannot mandate it, and staff are not legally obligated to disclose their pronouns. 24.4.25

Thank you eazybee

The rest of my post still stands.

AmberGreen

Well you have done it, apologised to the eggshell generation over nothing. Probably best because they all sound so politically correct a dose of reality might kill them.
Scientifically about 1% are poised between sexes and therefore deserve respect and consideration; they are not the army of young attention seekers who have to be danced around. You were in the right but don't need the aggravation saying so would cause. Respect.

I agree.
The OP seems to be in favour of grovelling apologies tho.

Hithere

You sent a faux apology as you still think you are right - as per your update in page 2

No, your gc and family do not have thin skin, do you know how hard is for trans and LGBT to express themselves and assert their rights in this world?

Your age has nothing to do to justify your behaviour - please do not use it in front of them

That is just nasty far far worse than mistaking a name

It s pretty difficult to keep up with someone who has already changed more than once… all the grandchild had to say was ‘Nan that’s not my name any more’ Nan would have probably said ‘whoops sorry’ and moved on, but a big thing had to be made of it, a huge injustice done to this poor child (young adult) more attention seeking stuff , it’s a great ‘look at me’ moment, Getting offended to get more attention’

You did right to apologise and I would too to keep the peace but you did nothing wrong at all

I reported the spam post of Mon 12-May-25

Bluebelle I agree.

Mind you it is very difficult trying to keep up at times.

I have a friend whose offspring was born female and remained happily so until her middle teenage years, when I was told that her name is now a male name and friend’s offspring adopted male garments etc. however said offspring has gradually over the past 6-7 years transitioned from her to him to they and now back to a very glamorous her!!😀😃.

Dear oh dear.

Bellwetherblue, do you feel the warm glow of 1950s self-righteousness when you hear of teachers being suspended and threatened with dismissal because they will not use incorrect personal pronouns of a student's choice?
Or the eight Darlington nurses who are forced to change in makeshift accommodation because they do not wish to share facilities with a male nurse named Rose who insists as a trans female he has the right to be there?
Or Sandie Peggie who is still involved in a Tribunal accused of misconduct for challenging Dr 'Beth' Upton’s presence in the female changing rooms at Kirkcaldy’s Victoria Hospital on Christmas Eve 2023, and for “misgendering” Dr Upton by using male pronouns while speaking to other NHS colleagues?
Or the transwoman Barrister who claimed on Women's Hour that the ruling of the Supreme Court will be overturned by the ECHR and that he has every intention of ignoring the law and will continue using women's facilities as he has done for the past twenty years, and if biological women do not like it they can use the single sex facilities elsewhere?