To discourage self employment for adult daughter

I have other adult kids so it wouldn't be fair if I did this for her alone.
It does all sound quite involved. I know she can make her own decisions but just worry she won't have made enough to get a proper pension. She just gets angry when I say anything about it.

I think that at 40 years old, your daughter no longer needs you to worry about her.

Also, I think you meant that in your area, only high earners can live there. Anyone can move out, regardless of their wages. Its a big, big world.

My advice is to stop saying anything about it. I'm sorry but you do sound rather interfering and I think any 40 year old would get angry.

You've given your opinion, now leave her to make her own choices.

I wouldn't be worrying about your daughter's pension, it's now that's important.
If she wants to start her own business encourage her, it will be better for her health.

My son set up his own business a few years ago and I backed him all the way . He's made a great success of it . I always encourage my A/C to do what will make them happy in life which then makes me happy too.

I'm sure your daughter would appreciate your support. You've been given some good advice by other G/N's .

I don't think it's right to say anyone can move out. Maybe in our generation we could but times are very different now.
I'm not here to discuss that however.

I'm not being controlling. Just concerned for her future especially if she stays single.

You may not think you’re being controlling You may not mean to be controlling but to be discouraging a 40 year old from trying something different is controlling
Anyone can move out,, my 24 year old grandson has set himself up in business the last three years and has bought and moved into his own starter home and we are at the opposite end of your wealth we are very much working class He wanted to try and has, if it goes up in smoke he ll have to start again, but fingers crossed he ll continue being successful and working very hard to achieve it
I had no influence on any of my children’s career paths other than giving them pointers of where to get information they are all professionals and my 7 grandchildren all have good careers in various areas bar the youngest who is still at uni
Let your daughter try, ( but you won’t will you) she’s unhappy and making her self ill, blow a far off pension who knows what the futures holds for any of our children or grandchildren

TopsyandTIm.if your daughter has to give up working completely because her ill health has become so bad she can no longer cope with meeting the demands of an employer, then what good is that going to do her, or her pension?

If she earns less than £12,500 as a freelancer she will not need to pay any NI because it will be attributed to her by the government , so low earnings as a freelancer, do not mean that she will not building up fully paid pensionable years.

I really do not understand your terror of your daughter not having an employer. As it appears from your posts you seem willing to sacrifice your daughters health and wellbeing at the altar of having an employer - and when the employer sacks her because of her health problems what then?

Your first consideration should be your daughter's health and well being and it seems very clear that that means her going self-employed. Your concrens about her pension are needless. Since the government will pay her contributions if she is earning less than £12,500 and she can pay self-employed contributions after that, I really do not see what the problem is.

Currently the problem is not your daughter, it is you and your obsession with her having an employer at any cost and her pension, which if her health is undermined by the demands of an employer, she might not live to collect.

Your Daughter needs to seek medical advice about her Rheumatoid Arthritis, speak to her Manager about why she feels she is being treated badly and seek employment elsewhere where she will feel more valued. This may well be self employed if that is what she chooses. By all means give her advice but ultimately she has to make her own decisions in life.

Perhaps quit talking about your concerns and focus on her concerns?

As you say you are wealthy and have other children too, maybe you could give money to each towards private pensions? No pockets in a shroud.

Our approach is in favour of giving whilst living.

I'm remembering a time when I had a very well paid job, good prospects and a generous benefits package. It involved huge pressure and meant a lot of travel so I was never home.

It felt like a trap and I was so stressed and unhappy that my health was deteriorating. One evening I broke down and told my parents how awful things were. Their immediate response was 'Give it up. Resign. Life is too short. There will always be something else and you will make a success of whatever you do'.

I resigned the following week, started my own business and never looked back.

At the time I didn't realise how lucky I was that my parents loved me enough to want only my happiness. Their faith in me gave me strength.

They were not rich people and when they died had nothing to leave me. I didn't need or want it....I'd had them and so was rich in many other more important ways .

Great response M0nica.

Yes, anyone can move out. The entire world is made of adults rich or poor who have moved out. Is she allowed to move out? Do you tell her she can't move out because she is not a high earner? Do you tell her she can't move out until she has a husband? What if she doesn't want a husband? Is that allowed by you? What does her father say about this? Nothing? Or, if you are her father then what does her mother say?

If you would like to know how to help her, take an interest in her, as an individual, listen to her, take an interest in her business idea, support her and support her in making plans - or working with a business planner - so that she can find her own little corner of happiness, pride, and satisfaction and escape this miserable place where she is expected to snuff out her dreams.

Life is not for retirement years. Some people don't even make it that far. Other people enjoy their work so much, they don't retire.

I guess I must be living on a different planet then because everyday more or less there is a news article about it being difficult to move out. There is a well known cost of living crisis going on and people are struggling.
According to you lot though there is no such thing as anyone can move out so as I said, I must be on a different planet....

As I said, I am not here to discuss that. As for the other questions, I won't dignify them with an answer. I will take note of the sensible comments made about what I actually asked.

I understand where you are coming from. A lot of the news is meant to shock readers and a lot of news is indeed shocking but the everyday workers still plod on and as someone once said, "the universe is unfolding as it should".

TopsyAndTim your daughter would be entitled to universal credit and probably health universal credit. Has she applied for PIP if not get either the charity that deals with her condition or CA to fill in the forms for her . Don't fill out the forms herself. They know exactly how to word things .

Took me 35 years fighting to get disability benefits. Your daughter is still young even at her age . And her health is only going to get worse. If she wants to work the job centre can help her train for something that fits her abilities even on her worst day .

Your daughter will not be eligible for her state pension till she is 68, she has plenty of time to get contributions in you only need 35 years, also there is a guaranteed minimum pension for those that haven't contributed enough so she will not be left peniless.
Look on the .Gov website for the most up to date information.

Thanks for the advice.
I don't know why someone suggested she seek medical advice for her RA also.Do you think she isn't getting any help? She has regular checks ups and blood tests but unfortunately this doesn't mean she is symptom free.
We tried PIP but she couldn't get it. It's extremely hard to especially with all the benefit lessening this government is planning.
In terms of the RA, it won't necessarily get worse. Yes the menopause and old age won't help matters but she is currently on a good treatment plan.

One of the problems with tax and NI if you are self-employed is keeping up to date with the annual (and other) changes to rates, allowances and other things, which is where an accountant will be bang up to date, as well as with allowances for expenses and the purchase of "capital" items, plus allowances for use of car, office at home etc. It may cost a little (but at the lower end of accounting charges unless the trade is unusual) but should be well worth it. Keeping good records will reduce the Accountant's time (and fees) considerably.

If her profits are below the £6,725 level, self-employed NI contributions are not payable at all - and hence do not secure entitlement to the state pension. The alternative is to pay voluntary contributions currently costing £17.45 per week (as opposed to the self-employed rate of zero for profits between £6,725 and £12,570). If profits are above the latter figure there is also Class 4 NI to pay of 6% of profits. Despite being called "National Insurance Contributions" Class 4 NI does not qualify you for ANYTHING AT ALL - it is effectively an additional tax on the self-employed.

Another problem with not having an Accountant is knowing what expenses are claimable against your profits and whether the purchase of capital items can or cannot be claimed.

Most towns of any size will have a firm of accountants who will not charge the earth. Often retired accountants (like me) will do the job cheaply in order to keep their skills honed - we have to do that to keep our qualification current. I even do the accounts for some clients free of charge (but don't tell the others!).

As she is already doing some self-employed work she should already be registered as such with HMRC - that is a priority.

Good luck to her.

In fact, one of my "free" clients is a lady with RA. For a lot of her life she was too ill to commit to an outside/regular job but managed to make a decent living for herself. She is a singer - you might have heard her singing some of the commercials on the telly! And no, they don't pay much! I could mention another well-known situation that many of you might have heard her voice but I won't!

That is very helpful Madmeg.
Her self employment won't be complicated I don't think. I do however think an accountant will be helpful as she isn't great with numbers and would be worried about getting it wrong.
Last year she earned just under 1K in self employment but didn't have to declare. If she wants to progress further with this then obviously she will have to do so.

TopsyAndTim if your daughter is anxious about the "numbers" could you gift her an accountant to get her started?

Maybe that would help you both feel better about it?

What do her siblings and her other parent think?

I'm pretty certain my adult children would be happy that one of the others had a bit of help to get a business started - especially given she has been struggling. As someone said upthread you could maybe gift the others a similar amount if they (or you) don't feel happy about it?

I do think watching your child struggling is very very hard - and understand you are worried about her future.
...What sort of future is a miserable and stressful job though.

I do hope you can reconcile yourself to her having a go at something she enjoys. If it doesn't work out as well as she hopes, at least she will have had a break from her current situation.

As you are wealthy pay for her to have an accountant and let her get on with her life as she wants to she’s already making some money from her business idea and can chose her hours and way of comfortably working
Surely at 40 she needs a life of her own RA whilst being a horrible horrible problem shouldn’t stop her having some fun and friends and light in her life Maybe she has but it sounds as if she is working in a hard job not wanting to be where she is then coming home to no encouragement to fly where ever she can
Let her live beyond any disabilities, she’s 40 and you are still
(meaning well I m sure ) controlling her by your fear
Has she friends and a life outside the home you are providing for her and the work she doesn’t enjoy
Help her fly you are both stuck

As you say you are “wealthy” why is your daughter expected to contribute to your household expenses and be obliged to have a poorly paid, exhausting and possibly precarious job?
If she stands to inherit when you die, why not invest in an enterprise she would enjoy now and, frankly bankroll her?
Is living at home at her age her own choice? She needs to cut loose and enjoy life -RA need be no bar to that, D3 has had Psoriatic Arthritis since she was 30 and a highflying career as a buyer for three well known companies, travelling the world.

TopsyAndTim rheumatoid arthritis does get worse as you get older . Especially if you get anamoloyds( that's not spelt correctly but can't think how to spell it ) on your internal organs . My aunt was on kidney dialysis for 10 years because her kidneys where covered in them and stopped her kidneys working . When they hit her lungs she would have been on a ventilator the rest of her life . She chose end of life care she died few hours later aged 61. I know this was 20 years ago and treatment is better but unfortunately it can only slow things down but it can still attack internal organs .

Did your daughter get help with the PIP forms or fill them in herself? If she didn't get help as I have already said to get help. But get her to get the forms again and get help filling them in . Plus see about UC and health UC .

Occupational therapists can help her with things to make life easier for her .
On health unlocked there is a forum she could join for people with various health conditions including one for rheumatoid arthritis. People will help her and give her advice . I have found the only people who can really help you is people going through the same thing.

Self employment is great if you are fit and healthy, self confident, able to organize everything and find your customers. But you have no backup, no sick pay, no holiday pay, no pension, everything is down to you.

RA is debilitating, life long and as the OP ‘s daughter has found is well modified and contained by the drugs now available. I don’t expect Pip or other benefits would be available as the OP says the drug treatments are effective.

Your daughter is one of many in her age group choosing self employment over the awful pressures in many forms of employment our generation stayed with for security and pensions. Entrepreneurs are a growing band who contribute lots and seem happier than when employed by others.

TopsyTim sounds very quick to criticise her daughter . Expecting a 40 year old to follow advice aimed at criticising their life choices is strange. If you’re ’very Wealthy’ give all your children some money now when they need it.