AIBU to think my son-in law is mean to deny my daughter the 3rd child she would love.

It takes 2 to make a baby. There have been no virgin births, that I know of recently. A woman has no right to demand that a man fathers a child with her, not even her husband.

A baby is a responsibility, and an expense. Think of the uproar if a man tried to stop or force a woman to have an abortion. essentially what is the difference?

Do you think men should be able to stop a woman having an abortion?
My guess is not.
Because of biology the ultimate decider is the woman. Now in a functioning partnership obviously you want both parents to want a child, discussion, negotiation, etc. But biology is really the decider.

My problem with this whole thread is Kadinskys attitude
I know she has said she won’t interfere and hopefully she won’t but this sentence says it all really

AIBU to think the number of children a couple have should be down to the women? that attitude is the biggest problem on this thread yes, yes, yes you are being totally and unforgivably unreasonable, You are so wrong and must be living in another world entirely to think like that Sorry Kadinsky where are you coming from ?

In my opinion, it would be better for the mother to content herself with the children she already has than to have another child which is not wanted by its other parent. She'll get over it - the child may never.

I think the daughter is being unreasonable. Husband finds two children and a wife more than enough to be maintaining, if wife thinks he's not earning enough get a job, both have to want it and he doesn't.

I totally agree Doodledog one is always going to be unhappy in this situation
I don’t think the son in law is being mean he is being practical and has a valid opinion Neither do I think the daughter is being mean she has a need she wants to fulfil
So only one answer one relinquishes their stand or they remain unhappy and part company which would be a shame especially for the already born children, but they are at complete polar ends there is no halfway mark it’s one or the other, but neither is being mean on purpose

Does your daughter want a third child to avoid going to work if she is a SAHM I wonder?
I have a relative who did this.

The trouble is that there can be no compromise. You can’t have half a baby, or one you get for three days a week. Whatever they do, one of them will be unhappy, and maintaining the status quo is as much make decision as changing it would be.

If they are both adamant in their position it may be that they are better off apart, as one of them could spend the rest of their life resenting the other. All the same, the situation won’t be helped by advice from outside their little unit. They will solve things themselves, one way or the other.

If I had known how bad my disability would get after having my son we wouldn't have had him . Even though we wanted 2 children we would have just been happy with our daughter. My husband had a vasectomy at 35 to make sure I never got pregnant again . It was a joint decision. The risk to my health was to great.

I hope your grandchildren don't pick up on their mom's wanting another child . They could be made to feel as if they aren't enough.

Having kids as a couple is a two-yes and one-no scenario. If both people don't wholeheartedly want to do it, it is not fair to the couple, the existing kids, or the potential new baby. The effect of being unwanted by a parent is profound even if the other is the most loving and doting parent.

More people need to consider finances and stress when making this decision. Maybe they can sit down and look through finances together to work out the feasibility. Too many kids are born to parents who are unable to cope either financially or emotionally (ask me how I know).

Kandinsky

Yes same daughter.
Husband is on a reasonable salary ( but a take home pay of £5000 is actually not that brilliant in London ) but it’s enough.
Can I also add my dd is not asking my advice or opinion, she has mentioned it a few times in passing, but I know if he was on board she’d be over the moon.

I agree take home of £5000 is not brilliant in London for one at work supporting a sahm and 2 children. Adding a third child could cause financial issues.

It might be enough for a sahm and two children, a third increases outgoings significantly. It seems a lot to expect of the sole wage earner

Yes same daughter.
Husband is on a reasonable salary ( but a take home pay of £5000 is actually not that brilliant in London ) but it’s enough.
Can I also add my dd is not asking my advice or opinion, she has mentioned it a few times in passing, but I know if he was on board she’d be over the moon.

It’s their decision and mean of the daughter to involve her mother. I think this has already been said, but how would the OP feel if her son in law was insisting they should have another child against her daughter’s wishes and asking the OP for her support.

£5000 a month take home pay, if that’s the case, is a decent amount of money. Your daughter a sahm? In those circumstances I’m inclined to support the father. It’s all on him to support and provide financially. That’s a lot of expectation

I think your son in law is being sensible.Why would he want more children when he has listed the reasons why he doesn’t want anymore.They are good sound reasons and I agree with him and I definitely disagree on having babies being the woman’s decision as it does impact the full family unit.

Lathyrus3

I think you’re quite dismissive of his reasons by adding that “etc” as if it’s just a bundle of insignificant things.

Finances are sound reasons for limiting the number of children in a family. If he is the main breadwinner the stress upon him to support the family may be very real.

Not to mention a child whose father never wanted them🙁

There are many perfectly valid reason for a person not wanting more children, be they the potential father or mother, but as others have said, this is really only their business. He obviously has his reasons and she has her wishes.
In general I think it would be different if they had no children, or just one. But if one parent is determined that he doesn't want another, and they already have two, I believe it would be wrong to force him. Your daughter is lucky to have had one child of each sex, some women are very upset not to have a son, or not to have a daughter.

Ilovecheese

CariadAgain

'Fraid so - re being unreasonable. She is and you are. Sorry - but he gets his say too - even if money wasn't an issue.

The other two children also have voting rights imo - as there would be less money etc for them too.

I'd say the "voting" comes out at 3 against another child and only 1 in favour of another child (ie your daughter).

3 -1 is bad odds for whether that child would turn out to be wanted or no.

A third child would also add various other costs - eg typical car seats 4 (not 5). Typical house has 3 bedrooms - not 4. Where would a 3rd child sleep? - cue for the other children being told to "budge up and do without a bedroom each".

She is being unreasonable - she's got two and it's one of each sex at that.

I think this is a bit sad to be honest. Do children really value a bit more money rather than a brother or sister. I am glad my children valued each other more than that.
The husband is not just getting his say "too", he is getting what he wants. (or in this case, what he doesn't.)

When existing children know there isn't enough money to afford another child that is an issue. If there's enough money for another child and still some to spare that's one thing. But when an existing child knows there isn't enough money for any more children after them - they will resent any money spent on the "extras".

I remember, as a child, being very conscious there wasn't enough money for the younger child out of the two of us (ie that erstwhile brother of mine). There really wasn't - but he happened anyway (as our mother said "Modern science wasnt what it is now" - ie that was the 1950s and not the 1970s onward).

I wasn't the first - my father is the parent that actually likes children and, all else being equal, he said he would have liked three - but accepted/was happy enough with the two he got in the event. But he did often speak longingly about wishing he'd been in a smaller family/better still being an only child - because it was a big family and too big for his parents to afford all those children. Cue for he never forgot what the "extras" had cost him personally - as he was top of the class and had the headmaster visiting his parents and pleading that such a bright child shouldnt be prevented from continuing his education. But he had to shut his mouth and try and forget all those extra children had cost him the chance to take the scholarship he'd just won to continue his education. But he never ever forgot he personally paid the price of the "extras" and wished he'd been an only child and was very envious of those children that were only children. A less intelligent child (ie one that would have left school anyway at 14 - and not been forced into it) would have been less bothered and so the effect of "extras" impacting on existing children depends a bit on how things are for the "existing" ones...but I'd be willing to bet few children want their parents to have more...

Kandinsky

My daughter has 2 lovely healthy children ( a girl and a boy ) However, she would really love a 3rd but her husband has said no.
He thinks it’s too much stress, too expensive etc etc
AIBU to think the number of children a couple have should be down to the women?

Kandinsky, I recall your post last year, you posted about a sahm daughter, in London, with mortgage, sil take home salary £5000 per month. You wondered if his salary was enough? Daughter felt a comfortable income would be £6500 a month. Perhaps, if this is the same daughter, remember outgoings in London?

CariadAgain

'Fraid so - re being unreasonable. She is and you are. Sorry - but he gets his say too - even if money wasn't an issue.

The other two children also have voting rights imo - as there would be less money etc for them too.

I'd say the "voting" comes out at 3 against another child and only 1 in favour of another child (ie your daughter).

3 -1 is bad odds for whether that child would turn out to be wanted or no.

A third child would also add various other costs - eg typical car seats 4 (not 5). Typical house has 3 bedrooms - not 4. Where would a 3rd child sleep? - cue for the other children being told to "budge up and do without a bedroom each".

She is being unreasonable - she's got two and it's one of each sex at that.

I think this is a bit sad to be honest. Do children really value a bit more money rather than a brother or sister. I am glad my children valued each other more than that.
The husband is not just getting his say "too", he is getting what he wants. (or in this case, what he doesn't.)

Ilovecheese

Madgran77 you say
"Hopefully they can discuss this and she can understand his reasoning etc"
Most people seem to agree that she should understand his wishes and give up her desire for another child.
But why not be hopeful that he will be the one to change his mind.

Would he really - ie "change his mind"?

Right now I'm thinking of one guy that finished his marriage years back because he didnt want children - but she had two anyway regardless.

I've listened in astonishment as a female work colleague told me she and her husband had a child and she alone wanted a second one and knew he didn't - but planned to stage an "accident" on him and then divorce him when he realised she'd done that. She wasnt the worlds brightest button and it didnt seem to click to her that my own feelings about her had just gone from neutral to disapprove.

I could think of a noticeable number of other cases where a woman made that joint decision on her own and I'd be willing to bet it hadnt occurred to her he mightnt accept being put in a position of having a child he didnt want - at the least the chances would have just increased he'd go off to another woman for a sympathetic ear - and get it....(and the sympathetic ear).

She is putting her marriage at risk if she makes a joint decision like that on her own and hoping she could con him into believing it was an "accident" (he won't believe her).

Another point is "How does anyone (even her) know her wishes would stop at 3?".

Some women just go on and on wishing for another and then wishing for another again. You don't know/she probably doesnt know herself how often she'd start "wishing" again.

It looks to me as if she bulldozed him into another child - she might well then start "wishing" for a 4th child.

'Fraid so - re being unreasonable. She is and you are. Sorry - but he gets his say too - even if money wasn't an issue.

The other two children also have voting rights imo - as there would be less money etc for them too.

I'd say the "voting" comes out at 3 against another child and only 1 in favour of another child (ie your daughter).

3 -1 is bad odds for whether that child would turn out to be wanted or no.

A third child would also add various other costs - eg typical car seats 4 (not 5). Typical house has 3 bedrooms - not 4. Where would a 3rd child sleep? - cue for the other children being told to "budge up and do without a bedroom each".

She is being unreasonable - she's got two and it's one of each sex at that.

I think you are being unreasonable. As the children in the family have two parents, it should be up to both of the parents to come to a decision whether they want to have another one. It would be unfair for just the mother or the father to decide.

Yes Kadinsky, you are being unreasonable. This is for the couple to resolve. They’re blessed with two healthy children. If the father really doesn’t want the responsibilities of a third child that has to be a serious consideration. It could wreck the marriage.
I’m not sure why your daughter is involving you