grandparents drinking

You mustn't on any account compromise on this issue. Your child's safety is the most important thing and your husband is extraordinarily blinkered if he can't see this. Did his parents drink when he was young? Presumably this is not a new addiction and he has grown up with it. Their 'compromise' of not drinking until she has gone to bed is not to be trusted, and, in any case, as others have said, they would not be able to cope in an emergency.

Is there any chance of you both getting together with your sister-in-law and her husband and discussing it with them? From what you say, it seems that your sister in law, at least, is concerned about their heavy drinking and, although your in laws are only dropping the children off and picking them up from school/nursery, is there a danger that they might have be affected by drink when they do this? Perhaps it should it be pointed out to your sister in law that this is an issue that might affect her children as well. Perhaps if you all presented a united front to your in-laws, they would be more prepared to listen to your concerns.

Whatever happens, you are absolutely right to stand firm on this. I'm so sorry it's causing you all this unhappiness and difficulties with your husband.

The awful thing about all this is your husband is not supporting you which in turn could start to have a depressing effect on your health. You'll begin to feel isolated as the family are turning against you.

Your child also may be affected by any arguments which are taking place between the two of you.

Try if possible to have a constructive talk with your husband without loosing your temper. Before hand list all the things you are concerned about and try and discuss this in a calm manner, it's not going to be easy,

I think you may need a third party to intervene if this doesn't work say a relationship counselor.

If the family cannot for an evening stop drinking they have serious problems and may be alcoholics.

Clearly as a mother you cannot under any circumstances put your child at risk. If anything happened you would never forgive yourself.

my dh is caught in the middle between my insistence for the safety and wellbeing of our dd and his parents feelings. we argued again last night and he said that if we ever want to go away for a couple of nights just ourselves then we have no-one to babysit our dd. i said that just because his parents have babysat for us in the past does not mean that they can insist on having her under their terms which is they will get drunk anyway and therefore i will not give our dd to them to babysit. my sister in law who his mother is close to tried bringing the subject of their heavy drinking up last year and his mother got a bit fiery so my sister in law backed down as they rely heavily on his parents to take their two children aged 5 and 18 months to and from school and nursery so that my sister in law can go back to work and she doesnt want to rock the boat. however since then my sister in law and brother in law have stopped visiting them each wednesday as they are drunk and they dont want their children around their grandparents when they are drinking. my dh doesnt see this and thinks im just being nasty because he thinks i hate and despise his mother. ive told him i dont hate her but i am totally disgusted and very let down and angry with them for drinking when they have my dd. he is now saying he will taker our dd down to see them and stay over for one night and he will stay in and not go out in the evening. i told him he promised me he would do this the last time he took our dd down but he went out for a few drinks with his cousin so i dont have any faith. i argue with him that his loyalties are not with his daughter and he is focusing on having hurt his parents but his dd should come first and he just does not think at all that anything could go wrong. for example last night my dd woke me at 2am. she had a temperature, bad cough and was feeling poorly. if she had been at his parents would they have been able to deal with her? im very concerned too that his mother drops our daughter as she insists on carrying her around especially upstairs to bed and i worry myself sick that she falls on the stairs. my dd is quite capable of walking upstairs herself but his mother doesnt have the commonsense not to lift her. i feel i am now in a very lonely isolated place and i cannot show this thread to my dh as he wouldnt be happy if he thought that i had shared this with others. his concern is his parents feelings and he cannot see my point of view at all. he has never supported me with his parents and im not surprised that he is not supporting me now but i am very disappointed that his instinct for his daughters safety and wellbeing is not a priority. i can see from everyones replies that i am in the right and this is helping me in digging my heels in and not giving in. many thanks ladies.

As others have said your husband would bear responsibility if the child was harmed after he had chosen to leave your daughter in the sole care of his parents while they were under the influence of that much alcohol.

You need to try to talk to him about this responsibility.

I would also say though, if you think that challenging your husband about this would make him react in a way that you might suffer harm from his aggression, you need to seek advice from a local domestic violence prevention service. They would be on the internet for your area.

I am not making any assumptions about your DH at all. I do not know anything about him, but I do know this stuff happens in situations like this.

I'm not sure it's a good idea for joolsangel to show her husband this thread. If he's not prepared to listen to her concerns about their child he's likely to be angered by the advice on here.

You are right to stand your ground, joolsangel. I do think you need some professional help though.

Have you shown your DH this thread? If not do so. Perhaps our unequivocal agreement that a child should never be left alone with grandparents, aunts, uncles, best friends or anyone if they drink heavily is unequivocal.

Two pages of grandparents supporting you and none supporting the grandparents. Your child's safety is paramount. It is too late for grandparents to finally see the problem after your child has been injured because while drunk they have overbalanced, tripped, fallen asleep or otherwise contributed to her suffering.

I agree that something needs to happen to facilitate proper communication between both of you in this situation. This is why I feel that criticism is not helpful, but the approach should be that the grandparents have a problem that needs to be resolved via those agencies that deal with alcoholism.

There needs to be a way forward that recognises that both parents have a duty to protect their child; and some reasonable debate needs to take place about this.

If your OH is unable to do this, because of the difficult situation he finds himself in, maybe you could accumulate some evidence and information off the net that might help him to recognise the real nature of his parents' problems.

In the meantime your duty to protect your daughter is paramount; but it would be so good if a way to do this without causing antagonism with your OH could be found. I am sorry that this is how things are panning out at the moment.

What a nightmare! Like lots of GNetters, I enjoy a glass or three of wine, but never when I am babysitting. Of course you are right in that these people are not fit to look after your daughter, but I feel that the root of this problem lies between you and your husband. You do not seem able to communicate your very reasonable fears in a way that he is able to accept and act upon. Of course, I feel some sympathy for him as he is caught in the middle, but if he cannot see that his duty as a father and husband must take precendence over his role as a son in this important matter, then you have a real problem on your hands. I suspect you already know this. It's all very well to say call the social workers or the police, but the repercussions for this within your marriage would have to be faced. I get the feeling, and apologies if I am way off beam here, that this is the crisis these underlying problems are leading up to. I hope I don't sound like a know it all - but I remember very vividly my then husband insisting on taking our 5 year old son out on a high powered motorbike, without any protective clothing or crash hat, which was not the law in those days. I rang the police, to be told that my husband was not breaking the law and they could not intervene. Maybe so, but this was the tipping point for me. I sincerely wish you all the best in resolving this difficult situation. Stay strong for your daughter and for yourself.

jools what a horrible situation to be in. As sunseeker said, if your husband was accustomed to his parents drinking when he was younger, he may think their behaviour is fairly normal.

You are absolutely right in taking the stance you have. Your husband should be acting on your daughter's behalf and supporting you, rather than siding with his family. You say he is prepared to stay at their home with your daughter so that he can make sure she is properly looked after, but that you don't think he will stay in all the time. It seems that he is being as irresponsible as they are - you should be able to trust him in a matter as important as this.

I wish I could give some advice as to what you should do but I really don't know how else you can deal with this, other than remaining firm about them not being left in charge of your daughter. As others suggested, Alanon may be able to give you some support and ideas as to how to deal with this situation.

I hope you can get some help with this - good luck.

Of course you are right to put your child's welfare first. Did they drink this much whilst your OH was growing up? If so, he would just think of this as normal. As someone said previously, point out that if they are unfit to drive a car then they are certainly not fit to look after a child.

Do you have family of your own close by that you could call on for support - it must be difficult being the lone sane voice in all this.

I do wish you well and hope your OH can be made to see sense

hi stansgran. they drink a full tumbler full with vodka (our tumblers hold half a pint) and they put about a cm of coke in it. when they get near the bottom of the vodka bottle, ie when there is only about 3 or 4 units left, his mother will knock it back in one gulp neat. I have offered to my dh for them to come to our house as they quite often do as we have spare rooms but he has said that I have caused the relationship between us to totally break down now so they wont come. so if suggested they stay at a nearby B&B if they don't want to stay at the house. he said the only way around is for him to take our DD to them and he will stay there for a few days as im not welcome at theirs anymore but I know that he wont stay in every night with his parents as he normally goes out with his some friends so after our dd has gone to bed she is alone with them and they are drunk. they go to bed at 8.30 - 9.00pm as they are so drunk. my only solution now is to say that she will not go to their house as I do not trust they will not drink. he said they have just come back with a compromise in the last few days which is they will wait till she has gone to bed before they drink. they just don't get it and they are angry with me as they think I am saying they will harm her. well it could quite easily happen. we have had to rush our daughter to hospital early evening when she ran into the corner of the table and split her head open last year. I don't see that I have anything to lose any more so I feel I just have to keep digging my heels in and say that she will not visit them as they cannot simply stop themselves drinking even for a few nights that they have her. its causing such a terrible atmosphere between dh and I but I must look out for my daughters welfare and safety.

I know this is a very serious topic and do not want to sound flippant, but how can people afford to drink a bottle of vodka every night?

Do they drink it neat or with a mixer? It just seems a lot of fluid for one body to have. And are we talking about a litre bottle here? My DD says that if you can't get results one way change your tactics ie your daughter can stay if you and your husband can stay. No room? Oh well sorry. They can stay over to see yourDD . No room or your house is "dry" .their choice.

ladies, many thanks for your views and support.

DH just worked out that this is equivalent to 7 double vodkas each, assuming a 70 cl bottle or 10 each if it is a litre bottle.

Under the Children Act 1989 and 2004 , as a parent you are responsible for ensuring adequate care for your child, if you 'choose' to leave her with someone you know to be an alcoholic, and something happens, you, as well as they, will be guilty of neglect - make your husband aware of this,

I have so much sympathy - my father was an alcoholic, and I had huge arguments about it with him -luckily my mum was not a drinker, so I had no worries there, and she always said if she needed to she would calla taxi rather than let him drive.

There seems to be no argument here. Drinking that quantity of alcohol every night, in fact on any night is just wrong and anyone permitting a child to be under the supervision of anyone who has consumed that quantity is just being irresponsible and compromising the health, safety and wellbeing of the child. Sadly those who do consume those quantities do, in time, appear totally in control - that is a bad sign and tantamount to being classified as alcohol dependant.
If your husband cannot see this then I am afraid he has made the wrong choice. Your daughter and you should be his sole priority and consideration. It is not for me to say but please get him to see the error of his ways.
I would be mortified if I ever felt my daughter put me before my grandaughters, her children. She never would, but that is effectively what you say your husband is doing. That is just plain wrong and must not continue.

The law relating to being drunk in charge of a minor relates only to offences committed in a public place.
IF there was an accident and a child was injured then the grandparents could be convicted under the Children and Young Persons Act 1933.
IF the child was injured and taken to hospital (a public place) by the grandparents then they could be convicted of the first offence.

I remember one of the early discussions on GN was about this very thing and I think the consensus of opinion then, as now, was to say that you need to prioritise the safety and well-being of your child. I would not permit my child to be in the care of someone who was drinking that amount of vodka.

Good advice here. Addicts get stroppy when they are confronted like this - denial comes with the territory.
It must be very hard for your DH to have them behave like this. He needs to talk to someone else who is detached from the problem and can help him see that you are in the right on this.

I would suggest you ask your DH to contact Alanon and tell them about the issue. Perhaps they can make him see that his parents are alcoholics. I can understand that he doesn't want to believe it and that can be a perfectly normal reaction to hearing such an accusation about those you love. Alcoholics often seem to think they can 'take it' but they can't they just think they can.

Perhaps one way of explaining to your DH is the alcohol limits for driving and ask him if he thinks that someone unsafe to drive is safe to look after a child. I think you need to find ways of making him face up to their situation as it can be impossible to make an alcoholic admit it.

I agree that if he insists on taking her to his parents and leaving her with him that you need to contact the Social Services in the area where they live.

Looks like you have 100% support for your action.

There are laws about being drunk in charge of a child...you'd need to do some googling but I seem to remember it's punishable by a fine or up to several weeks in prison.

I agree with bluebell, if your husband insists upon taking her, phone the authorities. Social Services and Police. Even if your daughter is asleep in bed, if they are found to be drunk, they are still in charge of her and committing an offence.

Good luck.

If your inlaws are drinking a bottle of vodka, between them, every night they are alcoholics. No way should you ever consider leaving your DD in their 'care'. What would happen if she had a nightmare or become ill or there was a fire?
And yes, I would contact Al Anon as Butty suggests.

joolsangel I wholeheartedly agree with when's post.

Although my circumstances were different, I have experience of having to stand my ground against a whole family. So I've an idea of what you're feeling.

Please don't give ground. Easy to say, but I think your concerns are valid.
I suspect your in-laws will do nothing until they realise that their behaviour will prevent them from seeing their granddaughter.

Try to encourage them to visit you, and enlist the support of your husband in helping them to cut down on their drinking in your daughter's company.

It may help you to contact various agencies. Al Anon, and/or the NSPCC Family Centre. Explain that you feel your daughter is at risk in your in-law's company.

Hard as it is you have to get the message across to husband .