would a other grans be hurt by this

A new baby is a precious thing and each mother should have the right to decide what they want for their child. Personally I bought second hand clothes for my children and was grateful for them but I can understand why others can't. I don't like people calling in unannounced. Anyone is welcome just as long as I have 10 or 15 minutes to get my face on and put away the ironing!

Forgot to say my parents lived in my native Switzerland- in the days when flights and travel was hugely expensive. They did come, a couple of weeks after each baby- but as they could not drive in the UK and were not used to ingredients, type of cooker, etc, etc- I ended up looking after them to a large extent (but it was lovely of them to come- so didn't mind).

I wish I had had my mum nearby- I really do. Going home on 3rd day after a Ceasarian, and with an DH working every hour there was, night and day and week-ends- I really could have done with support. My mil was in Surrey and made i plain she had other things to do (her new toy boy) and would be in Greece when the baby comes....we lived in Staffs.

Thank goodness I had brilliant neighbours- same again when I had number 2 weeks after our move to East Leics. My sil complained bitterly about mil's 'interference' and yet relied utterly on her with her 2 for many years before ours were born.

Eloethan - I was trying to live up to my DM's standards I think, although she would not have criticised and would have just got on with whatever needed doing if we had lived near each other! She had been a children's nanny for very rich, posh families and everything was always just so as far as the babies and children were concerned. However, life without a nanny is just not like that and I realised that and felt more relaxed by the time DC2 arrived!

rosequartz I can really identify with what you say about thinking everything had to be "just so" - lots of home made meals, washing and ironing, house immaculate (though I would have been OK with clean, good quality baby stuff but only had this given to me when my daughter was older). I too thought that was what being a mum was all about.

I was very stressed and, on reflection, quite miserable. I so regret that those first years were not very enjoyable for me - and probably not my daughter either. My mum used to pop in occasionally to tell me what I was doing wrong re baby care, but gave little practical assistance, which would have been much more welcome.

I would add that later we were quite hard up and I was glad to buy clothes from the playgroup or school 50/50 sales - but that is when the DC were older.
When they were babies they were dressed in the lovely handknits that my DM used to make.

I wonder if perhaps the DD is feeling how I did when I had my first DC - I wanted everything to be absolutely just so - the house, her clothes, the laundry, meals; she had to be changed and put into an immaculate pram each afternoon to be taken for a walk - because that is what I thought you had to do! By the time DC3 arrived I was much more relaxed. However, I did insist that DC3 had to have a brand new Silver Cross pram (we had got rid of the previous lovely Silver Cross pram when we moved). I would not have liked to put a new baby in an old pram.

Looking back I think I was quite stressed and uptight with the first child although I did relax as time went on. I had no DM nearby and my MIL worked so neither mum was able to 'pop in', and I would have loved them to (with a little bit of notice of course).

I was grateful for second-hand clothes from my lovely neighbour and my SIL, but I knew that they were good quality and had been carefully washed and cared for. I'm not sure about accepting stuff that might have come out of a skip or from who knows where.

When I had my first baby I bought a second hand pram a new Maclaren buggy, and when no 2 arrived a second hand double buggy. I later sold the pram and the double buggy for exactly what I paid for them, £20 each.

I do see the point *ThatBags *made though perhaps the mum is an unselective big time recycler collector of rubbish.

One of my neighbours has that attitude to clothes for her young children.
She has had her second family late in life and says she was the same with her first - spent £200 on a cashmere coat for a 2yr old boy.
I told her I was utterly shocked, but that's what she wants. A friend has bought things for these children, and knitted things for them, and they are never worn.
Some mothers have this attitude - ok if you have the money.

I would not have behaved so discourteously as to refuse as that daughter has, how appallingly snobbish.

If the stuff is usable and not horribly dated in Style use it or accept it gracefully and pass it on to a charity shop.

I and my DD have no issues with second hand clothing. I bought some fantastic kids stuff in jumble sales. (When we had such things.) Most baby stuff is barely worn anyway. It will usually wash. DD buys good stuff on Ebay, for herself and the Boy.

If the clothes are in a wearable condition no one could tell if they are from a jumble sale or hand me downs anyway.

I worked so hard to try to make that pushchair look pretty! I made a broderie anglaise hood for it by recovering an old one, and also recovered a sunshade that fitted on with a clamp, and tried bleaching the corduroy even more which turned it a weird orange colour, but I really just wished the wretched thing would fall apart!

MiL used to turn up unannounced, my mother used to ring first. I started to guess when MiL would turn up and make sure I was out, just so that I could get her to ring first. Sometimes I just wanted a peaceful day, after a bad sleepless night. She was a lovely lady, but she talked too much. I had to be in the mood.

janerowena that was a very moving post

By now I know who does and who doesn't like unannounced visits, though I rarely arrive without checking first. I've perhaps arrived without notice at my DD's a few times, and she's quite happy with this. But I never stay long and there's usually a good reason for my visit. I'd always ring my DiL first to check.

I love people calling spontaneously and will down tools eagerly happily and enjoy their company.

Re second hand clothes and toys. It so depends on the quality of the items and the attitude of the person receiving them doesn't it? My next door neighbour is always bringing me tat things for the grandchildren. I thank her kindly and chuck most of it in the bin.

I just had a memory of being desolate because I was given a perfectly serviceable but ancient pushchair for DS, faded red corduroy which loked really odd in the summer, by a work colleague of DBH's. He was so pleased, and so were they, but I had set my heart on a lovely new one for my precious baby. Absolutely everything was second-hand and I just wanted something new. I scrimped and saved and took in sewing and did child-minding and bought him a new one when he was about six months old. I went to the shop where I had seen the lovely pushchair, (which was also a pram with a carrycot and eventually became a buggy) and it was in the sale at half price!

I am hugely into recycling. Even if I have the money I would rather recycle. So what suddenly occurred to me - has anyone mentioned hormones yet? Because mine were never back to normal for at least a year, and I freely admit to being very oversensitive during those times. Maybe the poor girl just thinks her baby deserves only the best, which to her, means new.

thatbags I agree. Being "lectured" or made to feel guilty about one's own habits and behaviour is, I think, counter-productive.

what thatbags said. I know one woman who goes to spend most of the day at her daughter's EVERY day- and it is just not on. If the mother keeps making comments about cost of new clothes, wrong to buy new clothes, etc, etc,- then perhaps enough is enough. Only your friend- and perhaps you, know whether her own behaviour has caused this extreme reaction, or not. Hope they can find a middle way that suits all.

I wouldn' be hurt by being asked to ring or text before visiting though. I expect to do that anyway with anyone, family or not.

I'd shrug off the clothes thing too and just not give her any more. Wouldn't buy new stuff either. Someone that ungrateful doesn't deserve presents and I don't suppose the child will suffer because if it would the mum would accept secondhand, clean, good quality clothes.

I agree that the clothes snobbery is awful. However, I wonder if the young mum is just tired of her mother's extreme recycling and has resorted to this apparently unreasonable behaviour because nothing else she has said to her mother has got through? It does rather sound as if, just possibly, your friend has a bit of a hobby horse attitude and her daughter is sick of being lectured.

I have friends, a couple, where I've seen a similar thing happening, which is why I wonder if it's similar in your friend's case. The husband is getting really fed up with the wife's attitude to food and all the food 'rules' she imposes on him. He's being unreasonable as these 'rules' of hers have helped his health a great deal. But the wife does rather go on....

First time mums eh? - give it time, go with the flow; it will all come out in the wash.

I think it's fair enough to ask a parent, relative or friend to give a little bit of notice before visiting, if only to check that it's convenient - and I would definitely do so if it had been specifically requested.

My own son and his partner, and my daughter are fairly laid back about such things and wouldn't expect me to visit "by appointment only" but I would normally ring to check whether they're, for instance, planning to go out, are in the middle of eating/cooking, or are especially busy.

However, I think your friend's daughter's attitude towards second hand clothes seems on the face of it most rude and unpleasant. I was very happy when my friends gave me clothes for my children which their children had grown out of. In the past I did occasionally buy charity shop clothes for myself and my children - still do for myself. I mostly buy new clothes for our grandchildren but I have given charity shop clothes (and toys/books) to my grandchildren when I have found something of particularly good quality and in good condition - I launder/thoroughly clean them first. They are always appreciated and I have seen the children wearing the clothes/playing with the toys.

Is there a possibility that your friend "popped in" a little too often and - when she did visit - didn't pick up "cues" that indicated it was time to leave? Is it also possible that she gave second hand clothes that were in poor condition? As someone else said, perhaps her daughter has had experience as a child of having to wear noticeably well-worn and unattractive clothes. A little diplomacy and kindness on her daughter's part wouldn't go amiss though.

My son and DIL live abroad. When their baby was on the way my DS suggested I make up a box of anything I could think of that dgs would need for the first few weeks. He knew I would really enjoy choosing for dgs and wanted me to be involved as much as possible given the distance.

Important to me was that I did not order on line and arrange direct delivery. I knew that I'd want to personally have handled what was being sent...making it more personal. That I would have 'touched' what my new dgs was going to wear.

I sent muslin cloths, a thermometer, many clothes, bibs etc etc. Three parcels cost me £70 to post. It was worth the postage to be so included.

However, the main point is........what he did say was...... ''they don't have to be new mum. And if X or Y or Z have outgrown stuff, that's grand.''

Other dgc living here sent over a favourite soft toy, a favourite blanket.

OP has made me realise how lucky I am.

I don't call in with local dgc unannounced but am sure that we'd be made welcome if we did. Made welcome probably because we don't actually do it.

I do think that daughter of OP friend is not considering her mother's feelings. Unless there is a background which we are unaware of.

Sorry for long post.

I quite agree with the idea of visiting by arrangement as I don't like unannounced visitors myself. My DD and her group of friends have regularly swopped maternity clothes, baby equipment and clothing, but I personally would never give anything that wasn't new. I like to knit and sew and have made lots of things for the new arrival in our family, which have been well received. Like other posters, I suspect this particular DD has suffered in the past at the hands of her recycling parent, and has perhaps decided that enough is enough.

Ah, FarNorth, if such things were none of our business, would we ever have lively discussions on Gransnet?

My daughter doesn't mind at all, but her OH's family are all very insistent on new. Three sisters, all desperate to shake off their mother's bargain-hunting. They said that even baby clothes have fashions and some of the clothes their Mum was buying were years out of date.

no business of anyone else, I should have said.