Is London a sh*t hole?

Are you watching the London Marathon coverage? It shows many parts off the beaten tourist track.

I have lived in and visited oversas cities and none compares with london. I live in a southern suburb - less fashionable than the northern suburbs - but nonetheless quite pleasant. I get free train travel to London and beyond so am able to visit as often as I wish.

I can hear free concerts at St martins, take part in guided tours of all the major galleries - Tate, national, Wallace, V&A or just wander around at will. Courtaulds and dulwich are also within easy reach. Sometimes it's fun to watch pavement entertainers near the National gallery, or in Covent garden, visit and have a coffee in Borough Market, buy a London walks book and discover quiet and unknown corners of our capital. We have a wealth of diverse theatre on offer. though I admit these are expensive. I have enjoyed many walks along the Thames in both directions. Dodgy knees now mean more modified walks, but I still manage to get about.

You can avoid the usual tourist traps. I would never go to Oxford street, or queue up for the wheel. Been there done that in younger days. Of,course things change, London moves on like anywhere else, but the historical spots are still there to be enjoyed. I shall be mKing frequent trips to our lovely capital for as long as I can.

HildajennJ - I wonder if your uncle knew my aunt? We used to see Tower Bridge from her flat in Tooley Street back in the day, before it became somewhat gentrified. Amazing sight!

My DH and I moved to London from Lancashire three years ago when I retired from work and we have never regretted it. There is so much to see and do - it's like being on an extended holiday. Having DS already living here helps and we take advantage of free travel to get out and about. We have found most people to be friendly and approachable - our retirement here is an immediate talking point - and we love the diversity of London. There are bad points, of course, but isn't that the case with most towns and cities? We just keep listing everything we have done since moving here and consider ourselves to be very lucky.

I did own an Edwardian house and a Victorian house (not in London.)They were both beautiful houses, particularly the Edwardian one and a wonderful house to raise children in. I'm glad I don't own them now because the upkeep is astronomical.

Congratulations on being a published author - any chance of letting us know the title of your book/books?

I don't why London is getting a bad press on Msnet. The house prices are really high of course and beyond the means of most young couples but there are some charming areas to live in.

I only know Finsbury Park, Islington and Highgate, all lovely suburbs but very pricey. Dh and I once made a long journey by bus from Highgate to Kew. It took hours but we saw a lot of the non tourist parts of London and some were grim but the same can be said of any city.

Falconbird I owned a Victorian house (actually two of them in sequence), I didn't have plenty of money but I certainly had enough, the family was small, although the extended family was huge, and I was a published author. It was a good life but I don't think it would be like that now – or, perhaps, I have changed too much to want it.

I love London and always have from the time I read about it in children's books when I was a kid.

I had a dream of living in one of those beautiful Victorian/Edwardian houses in a London Suburb. In the dream I plenty of money, a large family and was possibly a published author.

Ah well, that won't happen now. I did a quiz and it turned out that I was a natural London dweller.

DH and I used to travel regularly to Kew and Finsbury Park where my son lived for a few years and when the children were little we used to go Kensington at least once a year.

Isn't it interesting how many people love to visit London? Of course, it is full of wonderful historic places, fabulous museums and art galleries, world-class theatres and concert halls, delightful markets, top notch shops and other treasures, not to mention the mighty Thames. But it is sad that traffic clogs the streets, the pollution level is disgusting, casually discarded rubbish is rife, landmark areas such as Leicester Square are squalid and many other signs of degeneration, not to mention the cost of tubes journeys, taxis, theatre tickets, etc. I did love the London where I lived for decades but I have no desire to revisit it now.

We lived in both Fulham and Chelsea (Kings Road, no less!) in 1970/71. I absolutely loved the buzz of it! Just thinking of it now brings the atmosphere right back to me. But I was 20 then, and tastes change as we get older. I couldn't stand the noise and busy-ness of London, now.

Real rook poplin, for shirts you don't iron!

When we go to London now, it's really just to museums and galleries, but we do, now and then, meet up with friends and have a meal out somewhere.

Pompa, I remember the Raelbrook factory, it was just off Blackhorse Road opposite the tube station.Whatever happened to dancing drip dry shirts?!
Eloethan, my MIL lived in Walthamstow, on Billet Road, and my D H bought my engagement ring at a jeweller in the High Street(Fish Bros?)
DH is a lifelong Spurs supporter and he went to see a match at White Heart Lane about a year ago, and came back aghast at the new road system/layout by The Crooked Billet pub, a flyover? it was a main road before of course, but nothing like it is now.I knew the place well, but that was forty five years ago!

I'd love to be able to visit London more often we last went two years ago for 2 days and never even saw most of the wonderful things on offer.I am used to a busy City but never imagined London would be as busy as it was I loved it to bits.
I'm sure the mumsnet comments with regard to the property programmes refer to the upkeep of the outside of some of the homes on the programme which are somewhat tatty at times,no kerb appeal etc/decent upkept paintwork/gardens not maintained but most of those properties have been left to become unkempt by the owners sitting out for stupid offers on them but they do achieve the prices,which is sad for people who have been brought up in the area and cannot afford to buy.

Love London and visit for various reasons several times a year. Usually the theatre or exhibitions. This year so far planned - Harry Potter with GSs on Thursday well I guess that is a bit outside of London but is within the M25 - athletics meeting in July at Olympic stadium with GSs', McQueens exhibition at the V&A, also wondering whether to book "Dirty Rotten Scoundrels" - anyone seen it? also thinking of lunch in the Shard anyone been? Usually go to a Christmas Music thing at the RAH. Whats not to like about London?

But saying that I also love our countryside, and walk a lot. Dales planned this year.

Yes Rosesarered I live in Walthamstow and have done so for the last twenty-seven years.

It is not the most glamorous place in London but it has fantastic transport facilities and there are always lots of interesting things to do. Although I'm very fond of West Sussex, where we used to live, I don't think I could settle there now as I would miss being near central London.

I'm a Londoner born and bred, too. My family are cockneys from way back. I left the London area in 1965 to buy a house in Kent as young couples could not afford London prices even in those days. However, I've hankered after going back all my life and not managed it quite yet. Whenever I do go back, two things strike me. Firstly, the pace of life there which seems to have speeded up since I frequented the West End in the 1960s, and secondly, how much cleaner everywhere is. Even the main line stations seem cleaner than in my hay (hey?) day. I don't think it's shitty at all. I just hope all those rich foreigners buying up the property today appreciate what they've got.

I love Northumberland but as a teenager I spent time in the south visiting relatives and visiting London often and I love it. I would never tire of the shopping (mainly window),sightseeing and just soaking up the atmosphere. Love it love it love it. Just wish I could afford to go back

How strange when coincidence crops up.only yesterday we were telling some family members about H's Uncle and Aunt who lived on Forest road in Walthamstow from before the war until the 70's . We were speculating what the house would be worth today. They had no family and all their estate went on care fees even in those days, although they were well looked after.

Used to get my suits from Lew Rose in Walthamstow High Street. Mrs P work at Rael Brook shirts.

Eloethan, you obviously live in Walthamstow, or at least it sounds like that, which I used to know fairly well, it also had a dog racing stadium!
I used to work in London late 60's early 70's and found it fascinating.However, that was a long time ago, not sure I like it particularly now, but then I wouldn't like to live in any city now, I like small towns or villages.It may be an age thing.

DM always said 'up to London' and when we lived nearer we said 'up to town' and we weren't at all posh!

Surely that isn't posh or snobby to say that?
I think absent is correct, we went by train when I was a child (didn't have a car so definitely not posh!).

We used to live very near Bushey Park and for us that was a compromise - having to live near London but in a reasonable 'countrified' area and not too far to 'escape to the country'.
We went up to town occasionally and, although it always gave me a buzz I wouldn't have liked to have lived nearer in. DD1 lived much nearer the centre for a couple of years, as did DD2 and both places would have been too busy for my liking.

Parts of all big cities are not nice and other areas lovely - you can't generalise.

Reading this thread, though, has given me a hankering to go back for a visit.

In answer to the original question - is it heck! One of our national traits seems to be to run down our own country whilst praising others to the sky. I've even heard people who've never left these shores bemoaning the fact that they can't live "abroad", that mythical utopia. We try to get a London visit in every 18 months or so, settle on a certain area to explore, and wallow in what London has to offer. Last time we stayed in Greenwich, saw a concert at the O2, wandered around the superb market, cruised down the river, walked through the glorious park. We spent a few days in Kensington once, took in the museums - I could have spent days in the V & A! - went to the Royal Albert Hall (superb). For our wonderful Olympics trip we stayed on to do an East End pub crawl, St Paul's, the Tower, a scary Ripper tour. I could bore on for much longer, but will conclude by saying that we have travelled a lot, been to many iconic cities and loved them, but never been anywhere with the buzz, excitement, history and sheer number of things to do.

I agree that there's a lot of rubbish on the rails coming into the city, but we've found the streets are surprisingly clean, certainly better kept than many other British cities.

London has its good and bad areas just like most places in the UK, my sister moved to Peterborough, but still could not go into town at night/evening due to the yobs hanging around just as they did in London

I do know that there is "social cleansing going on in many parts of London and the governments aim is to make London a place for affluent folk rather than people struggling to make their rent or mortgage

Very sad but very true

I would guess that "up to London" probably dates from the days when railways were the main form of transport. The up line was to London, the downline was from London regardless of geography.

It's best not to think about the worth of past London houses, long gone.

We just think that in our present city, our DSs have never been mugged, they had a great education, made lovely friends, we always knew where they were on nights out and could easily be got from the city in 20 mins.

Bonuses: we have met great friends, we can all park our cars on our property, have never been burgled, have a thriving cultural quarter, 3 excellent hospitals ,3 universities and have fast trains to London if we want.

Being a Londoner, I know there are many bonuses of living there as well. For work, DH commuted and rented a lovely flat for 5 years. We all enjoyed the experience of going back, but were not tempted to buy and make it permanent once more. x