Grandson Mean

It sounds to me that he is a very mixed up boy. And understandably so.
He gets messages from his other nan, and possibly dad that his behaviour is acceptable.
And everywhere else that it isnt.

Is he ever in your house?
Your house. Your rules and all that?

That might be an approach that I might try.

That way, he knows what is what for a short amount of time.
Whether he would want to come is a different matter though. Sadly.

Has your husband ever carried out the threat to take the boy home? Or does the threat of that stop the boy being mean to you?

TRISHER ... I have him stay with us often and for the past couple of visits, he has been mean, talking back, telling me he hates me, his other Gran is the best Nana, he wishes I would die. My husband, when he hears this tells him if he hears it again he will put him in the car and take him home. He never says anything to my husband. I don't know what I can do differently.

I should add that this child wakes up most mornings quite miserable. His Mom has quite a hard time getting him ready for breakfast and school. His behaviour at school is exemplary according to teachers. He is very selfish and mean to his 4 year old brother. They fight, not just verbally but physically most of the time. It is so unpleasant seeing this. I tell them that they are brothers and should love each other and not hurt each other. It seems to be ignored. They pinch, bite, scratch and punch each other.
I have told my daughter that I find it stressful visiting and witnessing this constant behaviour. She says she doesn't enjoy it either. I don't think my son in law appreciates it if I say anything. Mind you, he mostly ignores it when they are misbehaving. Only if it offends HIM does he interject. His other gran is very, how shall I say, a real influence over what they do and with the children. I personally think my SIL has little respect for me. He says things to me that makes me ask him "would you say this, or speak like this to your mother"?
I'm feeling lost some times.

Maybe your DGS feels he is expected to be a 'big boy' at home too much and enjoys being able to do what he likes with his other GM.
Maybe he dislikes his siblings as they get a lot of parental attention, and takes his feelings out on you.
Maybe he gets bullied at school and he takes that out on you.

These are just a few ideas I had but I can't know if any of them are likely to apply to your DGS.

A lot of good advice on this thread and the one linked to by Indinana. Hope some of it can help you.

Thanks nana3923. I wondered if he had younger siblings.
Do you ever have him to stay with you? He might like a break from the other 2. A bit of 1to1 might help him.
I did wonder if something is happening at school. Have you investigated to see if anyone is bullying him?
The 2 nanas different ways of handling him will not help. He must be confused. I think the parents should sit down and talk to both of you (separately) telling you what their rules and boundaries are and you should both abide by these.

Thank all of you for your comments. Most are wanting more info. Here goes.

- I live one hour away from them
- I visit at least 1 day a week, sleep over and leave the next day
- 2 other grandchildren (boys) are in the home (4 yrs and a 10-month old)
- we are comfortably retired
- we moved 2,000 miles when we did retire to be nearer our children and grandchildren
- we are both highly educated
- we expect the children to be respectful like our children were and have rules and boundaries (not unreasonable)
- most often his parents say it is not nice to treat Nana this way, sending him to time out, while he is screaming
- his other grandmother is an ex educator and thinks he should be able to march to his own drum , no discipline , no boundaries

A child of five who says hurtful things will have learned somewhere to say those things. So where? And does he behave the same with any others as he does with you?

I think we need far more information to give useful advice.
I think that trisher is right in saying that he is an unhappy little boy- the key is knowing what is causing it.

Might he just be overtired? I saw a programme recently about children with behavioural problems that were possibly being due to being autistic and one child was just not sleeping enough. The change in his behaviour when they sorted it out was quite dramatic.

children with autism/aspergers can exhibit these behaviours as well, my own DGS certainly does.

great advice Wondergran.

Nana can you give us some more information please? The other GNs have asked some pertinent questions. Do this child's parents not discipline him when they witness his behaviour towards you? It would seems odd if they didn't. His behaviour is not acceptable, even at 6.

I wonder what leads to these outbursts and if it is some sort of temper tantrum you are describing. If so it is the old advice of not reacting and ignoring that applies. Being calm and firm is the way to handle it anyway. He is for some reason testing you. But he is also a little boy who for some reason is unhappy and wants to make someone else unhappy as well. You could try praising him when he behaves well and giving him cuddles and kisses or start a rewards jar. You have a glass jar and a collection of marbles. You promise a special treat when it is filled-something he really wants to do. Every time he does something good he gets some marbles-the number depends on what this is. If he is naughty or rude to you you take marbles out. Sometimes positive feedback works better than punishment.
I would also raise this with his parents. Although a boy his age can be difficult to handle it is possible to move him and restrain him. If his bad behaviour continues this will be increasingly difficult as he grows and if he is allowed to behave in this way to you it is highly likely that at some point he will do the same to others. They need to help you sort things out.

What do his parents do when he does this to you?

I have been called poo poo head, silly old woman, I hate you Granny! I have been kicked, nipped and pinched, slapped. I absolutely love my DGS to bits, he has Asperger's syndrome. The behaviour of your grandson sounds very like mine, he has often told me that he likes his Grandma better than me.
He is almost seven now, and has started to gain some control over his worst behaviour. He still has "meltdowns" but now retreats to his room, or a quiet area at school until he feels in control.
I hope it is not a lack of discipline, and poor parenting that causes this behaviour in your GS. How is he at school, and with his friends? Does he have siblings? How is he with them?
I'm sorry that he is this way with you. I hope what I have said above helps. It's something to think about anyway.

I think *Anya* means this thread

It is difficult to know how to advise you with the limited information you have given. You say that his parents are aware of his behaviour, but you don't say anything about their reaction to it. Do they admonish him? Do they know how you feel about it? Are you free to admonish him in front of them or do they not like you disciplining their child? Does this happen on visits to you, or while you are caring for him? If you are childminding him, are there other grandchildren present, or is it just him?

If this is happening while you are childminding him, then this has to be discussed with his parents as a serious issue. You need to know if there are underlying problems that have not been revealed to you - any sibling rivalry, problems at school and so on. If the parents aren't aware of any such issues then it is their responsibility to dig a bit deeper and find out - visit the school for example.

What is his behaviour with his other grandparents? Are you alone with him, or is anyone else present - your DH for example? If you are usually alone with him, then try to arrange for someone else to be present next time you have him.

I have to say I would find it hard to care for a child who was so openly hostile. I do really feel for you. But children are rarely inherently nasty - there is almost always a reason, or it's just a phase. With care, and with help from his parents, you will probably get past this before long.

I'm sure we had another thread not too long ago raising the same issue.

Perhaps if there was a link to it this poster would benefit from the advice on there?

I think that it would be useful to know what he is like with others, especially the other grandmother. I wonder if he says the same to her.
He seems an unhappy little boy- do his parents not set him any boundaries?
The key would seem to be the parents who actually allow his behaviour and the first thing to do is talk to them.
If they are still useless it will be up to you to sort him out alone. I should certainly keep seeing him. Firstly don't let him see that his remarks hurt you.
Tell him that when he is with you that you are the boss and he will have to wait until he is an adult to do as he likes- up until then you will continue doing it!
Pick him up on physical hurting by being a real dragon and not standing for it!
I think that you are being too kind and it is time for plain speaking with him.
Make sure that you have nice things planned when you are with him and withdraw them, and yourself, when he is being horrible.
He is spotting your weakness - in that you want to be liked and have a loving relationship- and exploiting it.
What is he like at school?

This must be so painful on all levels nana3923. I notice something similar but much less extreme with one DGC who is the same age. Watches carefully for reactions. If I ignore the hurtful words (fortunately not physical) it diminishes until next time. At the moment there is a refusal to hug which I pretend not to notice. The behaviour you describe sounds so extreme it's hard to picture the little boy's parents ignoring it. Sorry but I have more questions than help. I'm wondering how geographically close you are, if you care for him or if these are family visits, does he have siblings, do you have other DGC, are there other tensions in the family, is he OK with his peers? Is he ever OK with you? Having said all that of course his behaviour is not only unacceptable but so hurtful on all levels. Echoing other thoughts please try not to let him see how much this upsets you, sadly this will encourage him. I so hope his parents help you find a solution.

You do need to set up some strategies with his parents to combat this. He could be in the early stages of some sort of conduct disorder but this would manifest itself with other people too, not just you.
It's not always easy to give advice with so little information.
What are the family dynamics? Do you have a good relationship with both of his parents? If you are minding him in your own home then I do suggest you set up a chart whereby you give him a warning about his behaviour then if he continues his mis behaviour then he loses some privileges. Are you older than his other grandparent, are your financial circumstances much worse than hers? Kids pick up on everything and can be mean and ungrateful.
His behaviour will continue or even worsen if it is left unchecked. His parents really need to be onboard here to find a solution.
Normally, we love our DGC to bits but there is no law which says they have to love, or even like us back.
If he is kicking you etc then it is going to hurt as he will be quite strong at six years of age. It's time to sit down with parents and have a heartfelt discussion about how to deal with this. Next time you have him make sure you have some really nice treats with you ie a lovely chocolate cake for example then when he starts being mean say to him 'then you won't want the lovely cake I bought for you as I am such a horrible person' (quote his words), and then make sure he doesn't receive the cake.
Either this little boy is a spoilt brat or else there is something much deeper going on here which might be difficult for you to get to the bottom of.
It must be very painful for you but if you have already told him how hurtful his remarks/behaviour are then don't dare let him see again how much he is hurting you or else he will love the power he has over you. I really hope you can manage to resolve this somehow.
It would be useful to know how his behaviour is with others or if you have been singled out for some reason for his unpleasant behaviour.

I'm sorry, but I would tell his parents not to bring him until he can behave himself. Six years old and being so abusive? No, there has to be a line drawn here. In my opinion anyway. But I do feel for you, you shouldn't have to put up with this behaviour, he is not your own child, leave him to his parents to discipline. I would refuse to childmind him just now. You do not need to go through this.

And his parents are letting him get off with this sort of behaviour?

Do you really know what he is like with his other grandmother?

How does he get on at school?
Have there been recent big changes in his life?

I do feel for you nana3923 . That is so sad. It must be very hard for you.

I would try to ignore him as much as possible. Don't let him see a reaction from you. Have you any other grandchildren? If so, concentrate on them and keep away from this little monster.

If it's any comfort, my grandson was a bit like this earlier on, although I'm glad to say he didn't punch or kick me! He would just manage to say hurtful things. I think he knew what he was doing too. However, now, at fourteen (just) he has come out of that phase and is quite loving towards his gran! Takes the mickey a lot, but I can put up with that. So don't give up on him completely. He could well come out of it.

Thank you for your input. Yes his parents know, as they hear and see what he says and does. Most recently he has told me he hates me, is glad I am going away for two weeks, wishes I would die, I'm not his boss and can't tell him what to do. It is heartbreaking. He tells me he likes his other grandmother better. He is so mean when he says these things. He knows exactly what he is saying.