Daughter in Law wants Advice

Hi
I spent just over 2 years in a failing secondary school back in the 70s and hated it
Then I got a job in a Junior school and it was like going from Hell to Heaven
Whilst my children were young I did supply or short term contracts and it worked out very well(most of the time) even when they were at the same school!
Maybe she might do that too
Shame to give up just yet

Just goes to show mcem how some secondary school pay attention to the workload and support given to teachers and some don't. Glad that your friend found teaching at secondary level such a dawdle. But in general, especially with a subject like English where it is accepted the marking workload is excessive, this isn't the case. I'm not sure why it is, but I have two friends teaching in Scottish High Schools and they are quite content.

I presume you mean your friend wanted to upgrade her qualifications from a B.Ed to an MA? She needn't have done that just to move to secondary level though.

But back to Sadiesnan - it's her choice, let it go. Hard I know but ....

Also Pen sorry for the 'rubbish' comment, it was uncalled for and added nothing to my point.

Say something positive and upbeat - how brave/wise you are to take a difficult decision; lots more openings out there in other areas; opportunity to branch out; exiting time; maybe you need to be at home for a while to think about it (that will scotch the son support bit).

Just get on in there and put a positive spin on it!

I'm seeing her for coffee on Sunday. I'm going to suggest she speaks to someone as she's so low. I think she needs help, but she's a difficult person to help really. She's very defensive. When I suggested she stick at the teaching she came back at me about me worrying about her sitting on her arse whilst my son supports her.

I can do without it all to be honest!

What do I do? I'm concerned about her and my son. I feel like I can't do right for doing wrong.

A dear friend successfully taught primary throughout the age range for 20 years.
At 40ish she decided she didn't want another 20 + years so started a uni course to upgrade her course from BEd to MA in english. For the last few years she has thoroughly enjoyed her secondary teaching and a significant bonus is that she has superb support from boss and colleagues AND a great deal more time - so much so that she is now embarking on a MLitt.

Her work/life balance is far better and she finds the workload less onerous.
The comment about leaving sooner rather than later is apt. On 2 occasions we persuaded students that teaching was not for them while they were still at the training stage.

DS plans to take PGDE next year at 30 and, coming from a family of teachers is aware of the ups and the downs.

I wish your DIL well in her new career and hope she can carry over the skills she has acquired. While my DCs were little and I wasn't teaching, I worked part-time in retail, training youngsters in organisation and people skills.

If it really is not for her she has made the right decision - the head will have had a conversation with her when she handed in her notice, and will presumably have tried to set up the relevant support.

In some ways I do think she is right - so many people persevere and get chained to a wheel and then cannot get off - pensions and so on. She is young and does not want to waste her prime doing something she obviously hates.

There may be openings in teaching adults English, especially if we take in some refugees. That would be a path worth pursuing.

But it may be that she needs to go in a completely different direction, and her teaching training will not be wasted I am sure. Let us hope she finds her niche, as a happy life is worth a bit of risk.

Rubbish! I've taught in both primary and secondary schools and it is easier in primary for a variety of reasons, which is why after 5 years I decided to specialise in primary teaching. I agree every stage has challenges, but the life of a secondary English teacher is much harder than someone in primary with their own class.

Take, just one example, writing reports. You will have about 30 reports to write for your class as a primary teacher. A class you know very well and who you have taken across a whole year. Compare that to a secondary teacher in a school of (in my DD's case) of 1,688 of which she will teach about a third, ranging over all age groups from Y7 - Y13.

Or, in the primary class you are preparing your weekly English curriculum forecast and lessons for one age, for your 30 pupils, for one week. Now compare that with numerous classes, different ages, different curriculum areas, and so on.

Now let's look at the marking, or the behaviour, or ....no contest again.

I really admire our secondary colleagues.

Can I just say it is NOT any easier in Infant /Primary! If she isn't cut out for teaching in a secondary she probably won't like it anywhere. It is much harder for those used to teaching older kids to move to teaching younger kids as you need a very different set of skills /knowledge to be a successful teacher at this phase. All phases have their different challenges , none of them easy!

Perhaps she should try teaching at an infants and juniors school rather than older kids. My d.I.l is a teacher and also finds it hard work and stressful.

I know Anya constructive dismissal is something that is scary to go through with. At least your SIL got some compensation. I think J52's comments show how difficult working in schools can be. Anya I still don't know how young women like your DD manage. I was so pleased to take a career break when my kids were young and then to go back part time. Your DD and her fellow teachers amaze me with their dedication and effort.
Teaching isn't easy but whenever I hear of someone leaving the profession I think of the talent and expertise lost and wish that there was someway to harness this. Sadie I hope your DIL finds somewhere she is happy. I was a supply teacher for a time and must say there were schools I refused to go back to and these were not always the ones with the most difficult children, but ones where the support systems didn't work properly. I was lucky because I was already experienced and could pick and choose where I went.

I made the point about her CV and everything else, but she wasn't interested. She just wants out. Perhaps it's better sooner rather than later. I did my best, so now I will support her with her decision.

Thanks so much for all the very wise comments on here.

Oh yes it is Granjura believe me.

Trisher I expect you had the management skills to help those you managed make a success of their teaching.

J52 having taught for years myself and then worked in the Advisery Service, I met many teachers who struggled, not because they were ineffective or poor teachers, far from it, but because their timetables were overloaded, their managers couldn't manage their way out of a paper bag and the pupils were disruptive and the school leadership 'failing'

Anya to be fair, it is hard to 'become thoroughly disenchanted' with 2.5 weeks in ONE school- surely. How did she get on in teaching practice placements Sadiesnan? In my experience those who do have real problems in their first job also had serious problems on teaching practice. If she didn't, then perhaps it is the particular school and set up - in which case this job in that school, in such a short time- should indicate there is really no need to give up. Anyhow, it seems she has made up her mind, so we can discuss this until we all go blue in the face.

Excellent post J52- and I agree- but 2.5 weeks is not really giving anyone a chance here.

trisher I would have liked my SiL to sue for constructive dismissal but when he threatened that they arranged an enhanced pay off. He'd have loved to throw it back in their face, but he had a young family and a new job to find, not to mention possible references.

My daughter is secondary English, second in Department. It's 8 o'clock and I'm at her house baby sitting the 5-year old as she's still working. SiL is with oldest GS at Cubs.

Having taught for 38 years and managed a large faculty, I saw a few teachers who struggled, despite intensive support. They were deeply unhappy, but on the 'hamster wheel'.

They continued, unhappily working towards their pensions, hating every moment, classroom observation and dreading OFSTED!

If your DIL is that unhappy, I doubt if it will get any better. She is very brave to step off the 'hamster wheel' now and develop a new career.

x

I cannot blame her Sadiesnan - she's become thoroughly disenchanted. She's not the first and she won't be the last. My SiL quit teaching (another secondary English teacher) after just a few years too and he's no wimp.

Od dear- but, I'm afraid, it probably means her heart was never truly in it, and she was not cut out for it either. A shame- but perhaps better earlier than later.

Oh dear, sadie. It makes you wonder why they ask for our advice, doesn't it?
What will she do next for a job? The trouble with walking out after 2 weeks is that it doesn't look too great on the CV.

Well, I've given her all the advice and she's having none of it. She says she's made her decision and that's that! I personally think she's bonkers, but there you have it.

Schools can be war zones and it isn't always the kids, staff can be really difficult. Firstly your DIL must make it clear to all in the school that she is struggling. She is entitled to all the legal things listed as an NQT, but if she is having difficulties the school should put in place other systems to make it easier for her. These can range from providing support in the classroom, reducing her contact time, helping her with her planning. If they are unwilling to do this they are failing in their duty of care. I would ask your DIL to think about why she wanted to teach in the first place and to remember things she did when training that she really enjoyed. If she has to leave she should make it clear that enough support hasn't been given Union reps are great in these cases she should talk to hers. I would say that not all schools are the same and some schools with really difficult children are a pleasure to work in because of the camaraderie and support amongst the staff. I do hope she can get through this, but if she has to leave she should make it clear that it is the lack of support which has forced her out. There is such a thing as constructive dismissal and she may well have a claim.

I am not a teacher and cannot comment from a teachers point of view,however this has crossed my mind.
Resident teenager has just left high school(now at college),the school two years ago changed to academy status,and there has been a huge turnover of staff,and battle lines drawn between principal and those who follow her,and those who don't this has caused a few unpleasant vendettas of her non desciples,this has impacted hugely on staff/pupil moral,and if your poor DIL has been thrown into something similar it must be very stressful.
My DGD was a target of this cleansing,simply because she spoke her mind...she preferred the non academy..

She needs support and lots of it - but, as others have said, schools are under such pressure that they do not have the time or resources to do it properly. She should not feel ashamed or incompetent for needing that support and it should have been written in to her contract: a mentor, mentoring time, professional development time.

Sounds as though there is some poor management going on here - the head should have this as a priority with a new teacher. I head up the governors' staffing committee at a small primary school and, even in that setting, staff support and development is top of my list. If I thought a member of staff was struggling and not getting the support he/she needed, I would be horrified.

Teacher here - try and persuade her to seek help. All teachers (both new & experienced) find the first half term hard going. The learners are new to you (and often the school) and you don't know them well enough to be able to manage all their behaviours. It's easier after the October half term

Thanks very much for all the helpful replies.