Coping with chauvinism

Your reaction to this issue is understandable. My reaction was that this is sexism. Why choose you as the only female in this team/ group to take the photo? Pathetic but this men only photo indicates that so many males still live in the 'me Tarzan you Jane' era.

If you try to work it out with them and can't, look at your company policies. Do they have a grievance procedure? I am sure they have the glossy brochure equality policy but if they are just paying lip service to it and the chauvinism is ingrained in the company then maybe you need to tackle this more officially, or consider taking your skills to another job where they will be appreciated.

Sorry but this sort of stuff makes me angry grrrr

I am reminded of the number of times I have been asked by males if I know why women have small feet? Answer: so they can get nearer the sink!!

I would suggest you come up with something equally as pertinent and amusing, and use it.... frequently!!

Some years ago I worked in a virtually male environment (they were all young and actually really lovely guys). There was one other lass. Maybe we were lucky. They treated us as honorary fellas, took us to the pub for Friday lunch drinks/games of arrows etc. The next best was working with all-gay men in an artistic environment. The worst was with all women, bitching, snide, vicious. If you normally get on well with your workmates, explain how you feel and ask someone to take photos including you.

Try to imagine you are a man in the same situation. What would that man say or do?
If you can get yourself into that mindset it should help you not to be put upon.

I don't think it's necessary to try to be jokey. Matter-of-fact should do as in "If I take the photo it won't be the whole team. Jemima, could you take the photo for us?"

By not challenging it you are tacitly agreeing with it. How would you feel if your daughter was being treated in this manner.

How you tackle it depends on what you are comfortable with. Be a little condescending towards them. Use some humour. Start calling them 'the boys' and put yourself in charge then they can take you to task?

Who makes the tea? If its you decide you have a rota and tell one of them its their turn. Be strong you earned your place in the team it is up to you to claim it. As a woman you may have had to work harder than the men to get it, which makes you more than a match to them. You may have to prove yourself to the boss but not the rest of your team.

Chauvinism runs deep with this age group, they don't always know they are doing it. They need a kick in the right direction. The dynamic of the team needs changing

I know it makes you uncomfortable but you are already suffering so what you got to loose?

All the best to you and remember you have lots of Gransnetters cheering you on. Please let us know what happens. x

Start shouting, not swearing, to let them know you mean business and not to be trifled with. For chauvinism read coercive control. Tell everyone how you feel, your manager, the director and everyone else you can think of. Let them know you're not a pushover, covert bullying is the worse kind in the workplace.

Well moment now passed so saying something will be as sour grapes post event.
See it as learning curve and as suggested build up a set stock phrases...with photos in the future decline saying best looker needs to be in not out...try to make a joke so they then don't bait you.
Its difficult for you but if you harbor resentment it will fester and then you'll see slights where none intended..slippery slope.

Quirky sand - whether in a work or voluntary situation, it is a generic problem and unless they are "enlightened" in some way, they will continue as a 'boys club' mentality. I've come across it all through my working life and found it was best to keep calm, make your voice heard when necessary and show by example you were as good, if not better, than any of them. I always found it more comfortable working with men than women but never used my sexuality to gain any progress. Half the time they wouldn't have a clue how you feel, so make your voice heard without being agressive and show your worth. I found years ago I had to work twice as hard, and yet lighten up and have fun too. We're still a long way from true equality and for a variety of reasons these men may either not want to show favour to you or still see you as the token female/secretary/tea girl. It's a difficult one!

Good for you staying in the committee.
Another time when something like this happens in front of people try to say something like " Good Idea! A photo of all the committee" Then turn to someone nearby, not a committee member and publicly ask them to take the picture and say "So it is all of us on this committee.
This is easy to say with hindsight but I hope it helps.

Goodness me, men being thoughtless a hitherto unknown phenomena.

You could have said 'let's take a few and see which ones turn out best of the team, or you could have said 'do any of you strong masculine types know how to work a seflie stick or camera timer, because we should all be in this one. Either you want to be in the photo or you don't and if you do you have to say so. At the next team meeting suggest the purchase of selfie stick so that people don't get left out and make a bloody virtue of all that team caring/sharing.

As for making people drinks etc I never minded doing that and the blokes didn't mind trying to start my car for me or lugging my shopping in etc. We are very quick to see what we want to see.

Personally I never wanted to be in the pictures and would vehemently resist at all cost now.

If you are all part of the same team then you should all be in the photo surely? If it happens again I would suggest asking someone else to take the photo of all of you - you could do this easily by taking the camera and then passing it on to the other person, smile sweetly at your four colleagues and promptly place yourself in the centre of the group saying 'Say cheese!' as you do so. If you continue to put up with their behaviour then they will see no reason to change.

I must be living in the past! ?

Plenty of women are Rotarians, even some gransnet members.

Rotary club?

Actually, I don't know whether they admit women now, I meant there were still some olde worlde men only charitable organisations.

I think there are still some around. The Buffaloes Society is one of them.

What sort of weird voluntary group is it that has only just accepted women into it?

Thank you all for your replies. Firstly the team I am in is voluntary and is a group that has been going for several hundred years. They have only recently admitted females and I am the first female to sit on this committee in this particular town. I have been hoping that I would win the fellows over by earning their respect. This latest situation took place in the Town Hall in front of other people. I did not want to create a scene or humiliate/embarrass anyone however, I took charge of the situation, I think, by inviting the rest of the room to join in the photo, including our lady Mayor. This is not what the chap wanted but us what he got. As I went to leave, the Mayor asked me to have a photo taken with her. I did not see this as revenge, just me quietly making a stand. There have been several other incidents but this one was so public. So far, I have treated their behaviour as ignorance but on one occasion I did retort " Oh Mr. N...... ever the master of innuendo". Since then he has been polite but as the Chair, he is incredibly weak. The reason I am interested in your replies is to see if I am over reacting or seeing something that isn't there. You have given me the boost I needed and I will stay for now and trust that one way or another, they will accept me. After all, they voted for the admittance of women, albeit to boost flagging numbers. The gentleman who put me forward has now unfortunately passed away, but his wife told me he hoped I would shake the guys up and bring them into the 21st century. I will continue to try. Thank you so much ladies and gentlemen.

I would call this bullying and suggest you ask your manager to take the photo with you included and tell him/her why.

If ignoring the chauvinism hasn't worked, challenge it. I would certainly have challenged a team photograph that didn't include me.

I spent most of my working life in challenging male environments and got quite used to saying 'no' to anything I was asked to do solely because I was female. The question to ask yourself is: would anyone ask a man in my job to do this (make the tea, do the copying). If the answer is 'no' then do not do it either, your colleagues will soon learn.

I think I would have simply said in a straightforward manner " You Guys have not thought this through, how can I possibly take the photo when i am part of the team" Find someone else to do it, and let me know when we are ready for the photoshoot"

Then I would have carried on with whatever I was doing at the time.

I agree you should have said/done something. And made a note of the incident. However as this seems to be a one-off incident it would be helpful to know if this an isolated, one-off occurrence or part of a pattern of similar incidents.

It sounds to me like sexism, not chauvinism. You are being treated less favourably because you are female, and this is unacceptable.

If there's a HR department maybe flag it up to them? If not, make as many notes as you can and talk to a senior manager about it.

Be assertive. Good luck.

ps - it's not too late,*QuirkySand*, in small steps you could start to take a stand. They probably don't realise that they're being chauvinistic.
Try to do one assertive thing a day for a start.

I also think perhaps you should have asserted yourself in that situation. And I agree women of our generation were brought up to run around after men - with my husband I'm forever stopping myself, then saying why can't you do it yourself? Probably most of the men were treated like little princes by their mothers when small.
I too worked as the only woman with about 6 men for quite a long time. They weren't too chauvinistic, but usually looked amazed when I came up with a good idea. I used to tease them about it.