Does my daughter need telling

Family life is hugely complex. As somebody I know (who has a very difficult daughter) recently said to me, "We love our children, but we don't always like them". It's very true. Unfortunately it is frequently the case where a problem or upset within a family never totally gets resolved and things just fester away for years with both sides being unaware of how the other side truly feels, whether those feelings are justified or not. From my experience people rarely accept or acknowledge their own faults or mistakes and just cannot accept that have hurt or damaged a loved one when that was never the intention. Human relationships...... they're not always easy!!!

Hi Op

What were the years of estrangement. Seems there's a gap somewhere, could it be a reason why she acts as she does?

You have my sympathy Morethan. My daughter is 42 and has had a series of broken relationships and has been dreadfully depressed. She can't seem to organise her life and spends what little money she has on frivolous things and needs to be bailed out financially. I had to pay her rent for her the other day. I'd like her to come and live with us but she won't. We get on well thank goodness.
I think that when they get to 40 they need to get on with their lives especially as they won't take our advice!

So well said OTW. We are parents and our job is to bring our children into adulthood, from then on I will love and give support in the way of advice but it is up to them what they make of their lives. My daughter I know will die in the next year or so, its not a nice thing to say but it will happen. She will not listen to us, her doctor, carers or anyone else, in fact the Specialists had a meeting with all concerned and had it it documented that she would not take their advice. So I go on living my life trying not to let my emotions get the better of me.

Madmartha - only just read your post .... Brought tears to my eyes ....
I found it totally inspiring and I don't have a problem. I'm so glad you're now in a happy place ?

I can only guess at how frustrated and angry you must feel. Sometimes it's better to just move back and re focus on other things. These situations often have their own choreography and patterns that are better changed. She's an adult and will survive, I'm sure she has the skills. Take care and I hope you are able to enjoy the Christmas holidays without all this pressure.

Hello Morethan2!
I almost LOL on reading your comment that you wanted to say "FFS stop whining" to your daughter. The strange thing is that if our friends were being persistently difficult, then we probably would say this .... And just laugh!

And maybe if one'd adult children are behaving badly, we really should tell 'em like it is.

I've been pretty lucky with my two but I never have stood for any nonsense!!! My son needed a firm hand during the teenage years when he wanted to be out and about .... Whilst I wanted him home and studying.

I think you sound like a pretty 'together' person and realise that much as you love your daughter, her constant demands and lack of responsibility are too much for you to bear. She's a big girl now ....

So stick to your guns. Keep the lines of communication open and let her sort out her own mess.

KIDS!!!

I think you have answered your own question.
Why do we think we have to put up with bad behaviour, just because its family.
Clear the air and see what happens. If she is out of your life them she will soon regret it

One of ours is similar, ('one crisis to another')it's been like a rollercoaster for 20+ years. But I don't want to say more, as things seem to be more settled now, Thank God.
No little ones involved. She's always been very caring with us though.
No family is perfect.

My daughter was exactly the same, totally interchangeable with yours Morethan2.
She divorced the father of my 2 GDs 10yrs ago and took up with a physically abusive, drink and drug abuser. Didn't work, lived on benefits. From her late teens we had supported her both emotionally and financially through eating disorders, her first marriage and her abusive relationship. Always being asked for money, always gave it, we could not see our GCs suffer. We went through court cases with her for custody of her child with the abuser, despite it being embarrassing for us, and she kept him by the skin of her teeth.

We took our GDs away from her eight years ago after repeated fights between them and police interventions, and they have lived with us ever since, their mum and dad see them regularly and they are fabulous girls. Eventually she threw out the partner. Then one day, about 5 years ago, while still supporting her in every way including daily money for nappies, food, electricity etc, lending her my car, paying £100s to her to look after her own daughters while we had a week away from it all. One day I refused to lend her my car as I needed it myself, she was verbally abusive, told us we'd never helped or supported her, and we wouldn't see her son again.

I can't describe my anger, it was overwhelming, as if we'd been conned all those years which, of course we had. She always took, never gave back, not even a thank you or a bunch of flowers ever. With hindsight we should have stepped back all those those years ago and let her get on with it. Well we stopped contact with her immediately and it was absolutely the best thing we'd ever done. Eventually slept through the night for first time in years, worries fell away from us and DH and I finally led a normal life together.

Of course she survived, made new friends and manages ok on benefits I believe. Hope you find some inspiration in this Morethan2

My DS (33) lives at home - he tried a local uni, but that was a disaster (he's Aspergers with walking difficulties and chronic depression) and now he's due to finish a Games Design on-line course. Typical bad timing - we all know he's about to lose all his ESA Healthcare benefit, which is his only income, but he's now got to apply for PIP, which we know well he won't get. He does his bit about the house, acts as carer for both his dad and me, but can't cope with "normal" folk, so isn't comfortable with strangers. Please accept that Autistic Spectrum people don't know how to deal with the real world and maybe you could accept that your daughter may not know how to cope with her son. A friend had an autistic grandson who dearly loved his younger brother, but had to go into care because of reacting violently and although the parents did their best, they had no idea how best to cope.

CardiffJaguar - your first two paragraphs are spot on - parents have their own lives too - we do tend to forget that.

Cold - you are so right! Autism is an invisible condition most of the time - especially in those at the high functioning end of the spectrum. We all KNOW what autism is - right? Wrong! we think we know from the bits and pieces we have picked up but so many people are actually struggling with their own (or another's) autism but being completely unaware that the autism is what is causing the chaotic lifestyles, money problems, lack of social skills, inappropriate behaviour, etc. Of course putting things down to another person's autism still leaves us with the issue of how to deal with it! But sometimes when I say "I just don't UNDERSTAND how they can do or say that!" I am speaking the truth! there IS something there that I am missing - or not understanding.

Apologies to OP for going off subject.

EmilyHarburn - I looked up the Karpman Triangle which you suggested. I enjoy reading other people's recommendations and this book looks great. However, at £40 it's a bit steep (for me anyway) at this time of year.

Icanhandthemback - looked up your recommendation too but there were three books with the same title (all reasonably priced). May I ask which one it was that you recommended?

Walking on Eggshells... by
McKenzie Brown
Lysa Chapman
Nadine Matthews

Thanks.

Just one thought that if one of your GCs is autistic - is it possible that your DD is HFA/aspergers - hence her poor social skills and chaotic lifestyle?

If she is in her 40s she comes from a time when few were diagnosed - even fewer girls

Having children means a lifetime of concern. Whatever happens you cannot forget. But parents are entitled to their own lives too. There is nothing that says parents must forever face problems that interfere with their own lives unreasonably.

We all see things differently. We cannot expect others to follow our own life pattern. Each person must decide when enough is enough.

So it seems to me that this is time for a break. Back off and stop worrying. Get on with your life and enjoy it. Fill as much of your time as possible with those matters you really want to involve yourselves in. Never make yourselves instantly available and when a call comes do say how much you are committed to matters that you cannot disregard.

Be prepared to listen and say you muat fit any change into your very full diary. You need to give the impression that your own life is very important; that there are many matters of deep interest to you and that you must attends to. In other words you are not available at the instant you are required.

This creates thoughts that may not fit the previous expected life pattern and may bring about the realisation that you are independent and need to be considered as such. A change in attitude is what is needed. No arguement is necessary. You need to seen as having value. Then your time and attention will be valued.

I cut all contact with my abusive/controlling Step-Son after my DH's death. He even told me when his DF was dying (Terminal Cancer) that it was HIS Father despite doing nothing to care for DH as I had, I was regarded as "an irrelevance" despite being married to DH for over 20 years. Step-Son & his OH are selfish & GC unruly so I'm not missing out. Still in touch with Step-Daughter, they're like "chalk & cheese", lovely SD. SiL & DGC.

I am so grateful that my DD has a stable lifestyle, lovely home & OH, lovely DGS & new arrival in May

Hope all of you with "difficult" children find some peace

I have had a difficult relationship with my daughter over the years, sometimes she doesn't have anything to do with me for months at a time. I used to be in bits and when she had my GD I found it unbearable each time she went off in high dudgeon. However, I came to the conclusion that I was hurting far more than she was so each time, I would email her to tell her I loved her, didn't want to be estranged from her but I would accept her decision. She knew where I was if she needed me. Since then, our periods of no contact have shrunk enormously. I also let it be known that as much as I love my GD, I will not allow her to be used as a weapon and that has also helped remove a lot of the pawn games. Although things have improved enormously I am well aware that the ugliness can emerge again if I dare to express an opinion she doesn't like but I hope I am more able to cope better.
She also does a lot of complaining, I murmur expressions of sympathy no matter what I feel and when we get into that never ending circular argument about a problem that she doesn't really want to resolve, I leave the conversation saying I will think about it and get back to her if I come up with a solution. Those were definitely flash points for us because I hated that "poor me, nothing will fix it because I have absurd reasons" attitude.
I read a great book called "Walking on Eggshells," and used some of the strategies there. They worked!

Some people need a crises in their lives to feel alive. It is best not to get involved because if you do you become the victim. (See karpman triangle) www.karpmandramatriangle.com/

Every time you are in contact with your daughter and she comes up with a crises say 'what did you do last time you had this problem?' You will find she then starts to give you her problem solving strategies and you can then discuss these and support the ones you feel are OK.

The other thing so as not to get draw in is to use an assertiveness technique called

2. The broken record
This technique got its name from the days of vinyl records. When a vinyl record was scratched or broken, it played the same piece of music repeatedly. The broken record technique requires you to repeat the same message repeatedly, until the other person becomes clear that you are not going to change your mind. This technique is useful because someone who is trying to manipulate you will constantly try and twist your argument to break down your resistance. However, with the broken record technique, there is only one, consistent message, leaving them with nothing to twist. When using this technique, it is important that your message is clear. An example of a message which may be delivered via the broken record technique is: ‘I understand that you would like me to work late tonight, however, I do have prior engagements’

you ten acknowledge what ther preson says and then repreat your broken record ‘I understand that you would like me to work late tonight, however, I do have prior engagements’
www.coachingpositiveperformance.com/3-simple-assertiveness-techniques/

Good Luck.

I can empathise with some of the comments as my daughter went on the missing list for ages, had a child then when it all went wrong with her [idiot crackhead thief] of a boyfriend she turned to us for help. We spent a bomb settling her in a new home (that she still owes us for but we are unlikely ever see). We had discussions with her along the lines of we didn't want to be allowed to get close to our grandson and for her to then use him a a bargaining chip/emotional blackmail - then she just cut all contact, gave no reason and we haven't seen her or our grandson for years now. It hurts and does still upset me but I will not allow her to blackmail us and if our grandson makes contact when he is old enough we'll welcome him. My daughter is a pathalogical liar, creates dramas/crisis then tries to get everyone in her life dancing to her manipulative tune and I refuse to let her do this to us. When they are children we bend over backwards trying to give our kids the best we can, support them through troubled times, and make allowances for the errors of youth - but as adults they are responsible for their own behaviour and need to know that their actions have consequences...I dread to think what new background my daughter has created for herself as she invents a new story regularly (when I was seriously ill in the hospice she told a pub full of people that I was dead to get free sympathy drinks!) I wish things were different and that we could have a 'normal' relationship - such a shame when families are ripped apart and when one family member is happy to make life miserable for everyone else. Here's hoping that everyone having 'family issues/problems' can either resolve them or distance themselves from additional pain and make the most of Xmas and of life for themselves

Sounds like normal family life to me.
Just set new boundaries now and enjoy a stress free Christmas

I totally agree with luckygirl. Take some time out to think this through as it would be unwise to take action while you are feeling so upset. Is there another family member who could mediate ?

I have been through estrangement, several times always at my daughter's insistence. I realise that adult children no longer have the same understanding of blood ties as many of us were brought up to believe in. Frankly , I could apologise, support and show caring every day for the rest of my life but it would not change her mind. The humiliation is not something I'm prepared to allow to happen to me or mine ever again. Following an acrimonious divorce my ex (a coercive controller) now lives in the next town and therefore there is no hope of her changing her mind . Estrangement can be the most painful torture imaginable until you realise that your love for them can never ever change, that you will always care about them, they cannot take away your love or memories and your loss is beyond your control. You wouldn't weep forever at any loss . Taking up the reins of your own life is what your own mothers would wish for and remember that you are not alone, there is a growing number of silently estranged parents . Keep sending messages of love and don't respond in anger , my biggest mistake !! They can ignore them, but at best they will be forced to confront your love and at worst they will be forced to confront your love . It just restates the obvious , that you love them and you wish them well ( without us where they will be anyway ) but we do not need to make ourselves into bullied, abused parents. You'll miss the growing up of your grandchildren but you watched your own grow up -enjoy your lives and tough love will endure that they grow up strong .

'Sharper than the serpent's tooth is the ungrateful child'paraphrasing wildy from poor old King Lear. I wouldn't tell her anything, I am pretty sure she knows but it works well for her.

So may young people seem to live on dramas and disasters let her do what pleases her. Take the course of least resistance for your own sake.

I see on Gransnet the constant stream of parents who are having to do more and more to support their kids who want to call all the shots and give little back. I have one estranged child and recently, when a fortune teller said she wants to come back to the family the rest of us were crestfallen, we missed her for ages then got used to the peace.

Try and absent yourself from traumas and save your money for yourself, you never know when you may need it, she doesn't sound the sort to drop everything to care for you. You are not to blame for her life choices and do not need to continually support them.

Young people now want things we never dreamed of having, child care on tap with rules and regulations laid down that would leave the EU speechless, weekends away, monetary support, over parenting them just leads to more demands.

We cannot make them happy no matter how much we want to, they have to do that for themselves.

This type of situation seems quite common. I am not in the same situation, but know someone who is.
I am thinking there must be books written about this type of thing that could help? Sort of?