Treading carefully

I am a little concerned that the child's father your son is not contributing to this discussion.in fact you have excused him by saying you don't think he can help. I think you must give him a chance to at least be aware of your concerns. Does he have concerns about the flat? Would he be able to find out if his daughter is unhappy with the conditions. How is her bedroom. Is she having problems at school because she smells? Does she have friends to play. He as the father can ask her teacher how his daughter is doing at school and does she need any help in any way.

In the end the problem is are the conditions so bad that they are harming the child or is it just a case of messiness and untidy. With small living space it is often difficult to find a place for everything and as a single mother maybe maintaining the flat is difficult. If she is working maybe housework is not her first priority. Also many happy families live in untidy homes

I fully agree with everyone don't rock the boat, especially if the child is not coming to any harm. I also think she can have clothes at your home and wash any clothes she comes in before she goes back. Fun bath, wash her hair and she is set for the week. If I remember rightly some of us older grans only had a bath once a week.

The relationship is precious...say nothing.

I agree that keeping a cordial relationship is extremely important and it's probably better to say nothing if your GD is happy and healthy. You don't want to jeopardise the time you get with your GD at the moment and the opportunity to make sure she is well looked after while she is with you (and I'm not suggesting her mum isn't looking after her). Would it be feasible to suggest to her mother something like the three of you going together for lunch and then shopping as you would like to buy your GD a dress for her birthday/special occasion but want to make sure it's something she(as a mum) considers suitable as well as she would know best? It might offer the chance to see more of her flat, offer support without seeming judgmental, get closer to her and either be reassured all is well or be better placed to offer help if it's needed. Good luck.

Lovely posts today..all very positive to a nice nana and a DiL who appears to be struggling with issues for whatever reason but both loving and caring for their adored little one
Happy 2017 to Nanas, Grandmas and, in my case, Nannees everywhere xxx

To my shame, I've only just learned why my washing machine has a 'self'clean' programme! Living in Orkney and with no tumble dryer I find that drying clothes in winter is a nightmare. There often is damp clothing hanging about in the house so it was a wee while before I realised it was build up of bacteria in the machine that was making the clothes smell because of the low temperatures we are now advised to use. There are instructions online about using bicarb and vinegar in the self cleaning process.

I think the advice given on this thread is excellent. The relationship you have built with your granddaughter and her mother is too precious to jeopardise unless the mother raises the issue herself or you notice other issues that concern you.

I do t know why people seem to think she 'must' be depressed or suffering from some condition or other that 'needs help'. Although I agree this may be a possibility.

Some people are simply infinitely more fussy about cleaning and tidying than others, and from experience these people tend to think that anything less than their own standards is abnormal and needs sorting out.
Unless there are actual health hazards I would leave well alone. It is extremely offensive to have a fussier person tell you, or hint, that (whether in so many words or not) you are a bit of a slut.

although if there is mould in the flat then that could be a cause for concern as it can lead to asthma or other chest problems.

I wouldn't say anything and I would do as Welshwife suggests re the clothes.

As long as the child is happy and well fed I think that is what matters most. You need to maintain a good relationship with her mother.

I agree about the possibility of hording and concerns about a child being smelly at school. Equally, she could be depressed and just managing to do the essentials, leaving everything else until 'tomorrow'. I'd suggest ignoring the problem and working on becoming closer to your GD's mother. It may be that she is struggling with something emotionally. If you and she could become close, you may be able to offer her help and support and she may appreciate that.

Don't say anything drying clothes in winter can be a problem I have sometimes had to rewash things because of musty smell if I have left clothes to dry on drier . I had a neighbour once who didn't do much housework had piles of clothes everywhere but children were always clean and happy just different standards

I have recently noticed my daughters clothes were smelling foosty and mentioned it. It didn't go down well! Turns out the seal of the washing machine needs replacing and she has damp in her flat ?.
Sounds like the relationship could be easily damaged irreparably if you rock the boat. Just enjoy your gd and steer clear of upsetting the apple cart.

Just be there.As difficult as it may seem and no matter how well meaning, (stepping in) could be seen as interference.
As long as your grandchild is happy and not showing any changes in behaviour let things be.

Don't think I've ever encountered such an overwhelming consensus of compassion and good sense as I read in this thread today. Undoubtedly 'relationship' is king and everything else, however tricky, pales into insignificance. Many kind and thoughtful ideas to try here. Bravo!

Say nothing yet.... I wouldn't upset your fragile relationship as she obviously has gained trust in you to let you in. So I would leave it for a good few months to see if she invites you in again then once you've been a few times maybe suggest offering her a hand to help but I certainly wouldn't say a word after just one visit... recipe for disaster.

A fusty smell speaks to me more of a mum not keeping on top of the washing/drying and perhaps condensation/mould in the house. It points to your DIL perhaps being depressed and not knowing where to start with the tidying up. She needs a friend and it seems to me not worth risking your delicate relationship with her busyb.
You should see my spare room when I have 'tidied up' for visitors. My embarrassment when an emergency plumber needed to access every radiator on such an occasion still makes me uncomfortable when I remember it. I'm just saying that it might not be as bad as it looks, or smells. Sending your GC home smelling clean and fresh is probably a good gentle way of reminding your DIL how lovely is a sweet smelling child. I wouldn't say or do anything more unless your GC arrives smelling of wet knickers which to me would be a warning sign of something more like neglect.

I had the opposite situation. I looked after my GC for nearly four years. I picked him up in the morning pristine and I soon learned to change him into play clothes from the charity shop/ebay as soon as he arrived. He could then enjoy messy play all day and be changed back to his expensive unmarked clothes to go home. Mum winced a bit at the idea but appreciated her DC arriving home without muddy trousers or paint on his jumper.

Do nothing at the moment but observe and be supportive. I would seem you GD's mother may be depressed. You do not mention her age of if she goes out to work etc. You do not say if she is in a flat with steps up or a lift and having to carry everything up and down stairs etc.

Read around hoarding and decluttering to see if anything you read strikes you. Very important is the form of communication with the person.

This is a good start for do's and dont's
www.stoppests.org/stoppests/assets/File/How%20to%20Talk%20With%20Somone%20With%20Hoarding.pdf

Some people just don't have the same standards as others and some don't seem able to keep on top of 'things'. I speak as someone who has always struggled with housework. You really can't say anything. Just think what is most important, the state of her flat or a good relationship with her and your GD- no contest! As far as the smell on GD's clothes goes it might be something to do with how they are being dried after washing. If she hasn't anywhere and it is taking a long time to dry them they will start to smell. You could offer to take a load of washing for her sometimes, maybe using an excuse like missing having more family to look after. In fact that might be a good start to encouraging her to ask for help. "I really don't have enough to do these days" might come across much better that "You need your kitchen cleaning".

If things are really bad with the smell, the school should pick it up and act accordingly to ensure the children aren't bullied.
We used to have the same problem with my step-children so we used to have home clothes and our clothes. It was done as diplomatically as we could and there was no fall out.

Be very very wary of doing anything. I visited my brother and new SiL mid 70s when they were living in very cramped circumstances and tidied up a kitchen food storage cupboard that was in a dreadful state. I have never been liked since, it compromised our relationship for ever. I still visit but keep my views very firmly to myself and only give out compliments. I apply this rule to everything in life now and stay friends with everyone! Re the clothes, again always ask permission, make it very clear you respect the mum's views. I do with my own daughters. You could always say, "there's this nice shop near me, would you mind if I bought xxx a top/dress? I suffered from a MiL who bought what she fancied for my daughters with never a word to me about my preferences, so I've seen it from both angles.

It's all very well to say leave well alone but hard to do. If you can smell 'it' from the front door I would be worried.

Did you manage to see the kitchen which is the most important room. No-one expects a home with kids to be immaculate but there's a huge difference between a bit scruffy and a level of hygiene that's unhealthy. Perhaps there's a damp problem causing the smell.

Obviously you'd have to tread carefully but is there any way you could offer to help clear the room you saw full of stuff. They would have extra space if this were cleared.

Sounds like hoarding to me and hoarders are notoriously difficult to deal with for obvious reasons. So I would gently offer to help but back off until she's ready for the intrusion into her space.

I'm guessing your ex DIL is depressed and needs help with that problem too.

Just try to be casual if you broach the subject. As everyone else says, you don't want to alienate her and risk losing your relationship with your GD.

Good Luck

Say nothing. We all have different standards of living and this may be your ex dils. Just continue to work on being a good ex mil and do the best for your gd. Having some changes of clothes around is OK but if you insist that she changes as soon as she gets to yours this could cause all sorts of problems especially if you then wash those clothes and they go back home smelling differently. Leave well alone or you could be totally cut out of her life and that would be awful.

I think you have to let it rest at this stage but keep a watch because if she is a hoarder and it become extreme that is inherently abusive to children. There are a number of websites for adult survivors of hoarding abuse and they talk about being the smelly child at school and the fact that no one stepped in to help. It might be worth posting a question there as people who grew up with this would have a different viewpoint. It is an anxiety disorder so any attempt to help is likely to be met with a panicky and negative response. It might be worth buying her a new outfit as a test of her mother to see what her reaction would be and try to just mention it in a friendly breezy way.

Housekeeping standards vary, so unless the child seems to be suffering I would leave well alone. Sometimes storage can be the problem so maybe if the moment arrived you could offer some storage solutions, big plastic boxes or wardrobe?

I wouldn't push anything at all as what you have at the moment sounds ideal.......

A difficult situation - I would be concerned that the little girl smells , her peers at school will have no problem in calling her names or not wanting to sit next to her . Do you think your DIL has a problem with hoarding as you say one room is filled with junk ? Could you ask DIL how she is coping in general , maybe she is a bit depressed or has she always been like this ? The problem is that if you live in a dirty home you stop noticing the smell but it seems unfair to the little girl to suffer the consequences of this . Not sure what the answer is but maybe she would be glad of the help .

Some people when they are depressed start hoarding stuff.could this be the case with your ex dil? And often they don't have the ability to clear up,it's all too much for them.clothes can smell musty if they have been washed but not dried in a timely fashion,I've left in the washer for a few days.
I wouldn't say anything unless asked but would get spare clothes for your gd to wear at your place and if time give the others a good wash and dry to send her home in.
It's not worth spoiling a delicate relationship.
Maybe once you're all on better terms you could ask her if she feels she is coping ok and await a reply and then act on that reply.
If the daughter is ok,goes to school regularly and seems happy that's the main thing at the moment