Do vegans wear wool?

Into *it.

You read what you like into, Durhamjen.

And what's wrong with wellies anyway? Good sturdy footwear that I imagine is v practical on their land.

www.theguardian.com/global-development/2016/aug/16/veganism-not-key-sustainable-development-natural-resources-jimmy-smith

What bits of science that say not eating meat is better for the planet do you disagree with, Baggs?

I would contend that there is room for people of all diets to live in harmony

This is my view too, pamted. I don't believe that veganism is better for the planet even though I agree that there are some very bad farming practices. I think the way to go is the way of Compassion in World Farming.

If people want to be vegan or vegetarian that's fine by me but I don't feel I need to know what a person's eating choices are unless it's my job to feed them.

I wasn't accusing you of moral superiority. Sorry if it came over like that. I just meant that the "better for the planet" argument comes over like that. To me, anyway.

Harmony it is then

Nitpicking. You said they were vegan, too, and wondered if they only wore wellies as they don't wear animal products and don't like using manmade.

When I had the guest house, I had to make sure there were no woollen carpets in the rooms, and no feather bedding or mattresses.
Not because I was vegan then, but because there were vegans coming to stay.
Hadn't thought about the mattresses at first, but lots of them have wool, cotton, or even silk.

How was I to know you were not being as sarcastic about the mattress as you were about their footwear?

I don't mention veganism in that quotation. It was wrt their eschewing of any non-natural products e.g. plastics, drugs and so on.

Bambis in Norfolk?
Are they the Muntjac deer? They are small enough as it is; surely you can't eat their bambis?

How many members are there of ciwf, Nfk? Just out of interest. It doesn't seem to say on their website.
I am sure it used to have its head office in Petersfield when we lived in Hampshire. It must have moved.

I don’t like the blanket, you should reduce by 50% regardless. I only have the old fashioned 4 ounces of meat, and only eat meat around four days a week. So I think I’ve already cut down by 50%! And I like meat. I don’t want to be vegetarian and definitely not vegan. Now if those people who order 10 ounce steaks cut down a bit I’d be more impressed.

Oh, and I also enjoy venison. And, as my farming friend says, if we don’t eat the bambi’s there’ll be no reason to let them run free eating all the crops.

SueDonim as a vegetarian I agree it's a halfway house. My biggest concern is dairy products. I do look for alternatives, but at the moment this is where I am. I am focusing on the non-dietary things I buy.

No, too depressing!

In fact ciwf suggest that everybody's meat consumption should reduce by 50% by 2050, no matter what sort or how much meat you eat at the moment, in order to reduce factory farming and climate change.
Have you read Farmageddon?

Paid up member of CiWF. Eat meat. Just very picky as to where it comes from. I have big problems with fish as I don’t like the way it dies. Although having seen the way pelican, heron etc, eat fish they’re doomed to suffer anyway.

Baggs I am not assuming any form of moral superiority and apologise if anything I have said has been taken in a way that was not intended.

It has been mentioned several times in newspaper articles, and on the TV that one of the ways to help the planet is to eat less animal based products - please note I said less - that does not mean that I am in any way superior by not eating many animal products, as there are other ways that I contribute towards the harming of the planet. As I mentioned in my post I feel better, more healthy so chose vegan food for a purely selfish reason. This honesty has got me into trouble with some people in the past.

But I am still astounded by the attacks that vegans are subjected to simply because of their food choice. If someone starts to proslytise about it - then you have the chance to debate, but for simply chosing to eat differently? Really?

"They had a baby quite recently (when they were grateful for all mod cons such as a hospital bed and pain relief!) so I'm intrigued about that, as well. "

No one has suggested that anyone shouldn't have a hospital bed because they are vegan.

One thing this thread has taught me is that if one chooses a diet due to animal welfare concerns then veganism is the only way to go. Vegetarianism is only a halfway house, it seems to me.

Why would you think vegans and vegetarians have not heard of Compassion in World Farming?
Is that just an assumption?
How many meat eaters have heard about it?
Have meat eaters stopped using parmesan and other hard Italian cheeses because of the latest ciwf investigation - which was undertaken with Viva!?

I see.

Simply because it comes up in the conversation. I don't make that assumption. Of course, I have heard of Compassion in World Farming. I wonder how many meat eaters have though?

How do you know a meat eater is ignoring how their food is produced, wkf? Isn't that just an assumption? Have you heard of Compassion in World Farming?

There was a thread recently from someone who was dreading a family meal at their house because the daughter was vegan and very argumentative about it. The problem wasn't that she was defensive, it was she was aggressively critical of the no-vegans. I wasn't surprised to read lots of replies about how rare it was to come across someone like the daughter.

It's true some vegans feel a responsibility to try and convince others to change, but I really believe they are the minority. However, I do think that when a meat eater starts a conversation with a veggie or a vegan, the meat eater can end up feel uncomfortable about ignoring how their food is produced. It's possible to feel inferior without the other person feeling superior.

If someone asks me why I'm vegetarian, I tell them why without going into detail. I also tell them it's a personal choice and I won't be trying convert them. I don't want to make anyone feel uncomfortable because of my choices.

I think the suggestion that vegans shouldn't expect a modcon like a hospital bed when pregnant is intended to annoy.

I think it is the assumed moral superiority that irritates people. It is not proven that a vegan diet is better for the environment. At least, it is perfectly reasonable to think otherwise, but some vegans apparently think not and make sure others know that they are in the right. That attitude is kind of annoying.

Given that we've evolved as omnivores, I don't think it's unreasonable for people to ask why one would choose not to be omnivorous. Obviously rudeness is not acceptable. One can ask politely.

I was vegan for 10 years and have a mainly vegan diet now. I am not a strict vegan and am not one of those who persue the diet for mainly animal welfare principles. I just feel better eating a vegan diet and it is environmentally friendly.

The thing that always surprises me is the reaction that people have to the way that you have chosen to eat. I have NEVER asked anyone else to change their diet. I have NEVER complained about anyone else eating food that I would not. So why do people go on the offensive about vegans? People have been very rude to me about what I have chosen to eat, demanding to know the reasons why. Vegans have simply chosen not to use any part of an animal - how does that harm them? I have had my suspicions in the past that people have felt uncomfortable once they have begun to think about where their food comes from - however that is only a suspicion as I have never attempted to talk to anyone about it.

Possibly the growth in veganism amongst younger people is that it is an achieveable way of them showing their opposition to the way that a lot of our meat and dairy is currently produced. I know that there are instances of lovingly cared for animals, living a life of ease, going to a wonderfully peaceful death before they are eaten. However that is not the case for the majority of the food that we eat.

My main concern is for the planet. A vegan diet is much more environmentally friendly, albeit one that may cause changes to the British countryside.

As I very much doubt that there is going to be a wholesale conversion overnight I would contend that there is room for people of all diets to live in harmony - please?