I didn’t mean just meat jen.
My convenience store is the Co-op which I like to support, but nearly all the fruit & veg are packaged.
By special request, let’s discuss our favourite Classic Music and why?
Well, just that, really. I know that (most) don't wear leather shoes, obviously you can only get leather from a dead animal (ooh, just thought, they could have garments made from snakeskin, providing it had been shed/sloughed) 
But what about wool?
I didn’t mean just meat jen.
My convenience store is the Co-op which I like to support, but nearly all the fruit & veg are packaged.
Many of the people who rescue animals, pigs, horses, turkeys, cows, etc., are vegan.
Nobody has said you cull all the animals. What do you think killing them for meat is if not culling?
You let them live normal lives and die off naturally.
I presume you know that most of the sheep and cattle you see have been produced just for food by artificial insemination. Nothing natural about that.
My convenience shop is a Spar. Not a lot of vegan oranic food there.
Is your convenience shop a Waitrose, Jane? I get mine delivefed from Hexham Waitrose.
Eglantine, I used to be asked what was the point as not everyone would become vegetarian. It's still amazing that forty years on people are still asking that.
The point is that you do what you can and others hopefully will think about it and do their bit to help the environment, just as Monica says.
Jane, it's more environmentally damaging to buy meat, full stop.
Any answers anyone wants can be found on
www.viva.org.uk
Consequently those herds which were kept simply to provide wool are now uneconomical ....is what I meant to write.
It’s a shame that wool isn’t used more. Sheep have to be shorn to stop all sorts of problems but in the UK, it costs more per fleece to shear each sheep that that fleece is worth.
Consequently those herds which were kept simply to provide wool are now economical and most herds are for meat.
I was vegetarian for nearly 20 years and even now I only eat ethically produced meat. But on the question of wool, which was the OP, I feel it’s a terrible waste that these fleeces are not used and valued.
I am not sure of the sustainability of wearing artificial fibres, almost all of which are made from petrochemicals
monica I’ve got some activewear leggings that claim to be made from recycled plastic bottles. And I think most fleeces come from recycled plastic.
Yes I know the bottles were made from petrochemicals originally but it’s good to know some of them are being recycled imaginatively.
What really bugs me is prepackaged meat & vegetables. I try to avoid them but sometimes it’s impossible.
Is it more environmentally damaging to walk to the convenience shop & buy prepackaged, or drive to the supermarket with the fresh meat counter & buy loose? Just wondering.
In my view we should use the wool from sheep and the leather .
What would happen to the animals we have if they were not managed? We have wild rabbits and goats and horses etc . Let them breed without management and they will destroy the pasture etc. Causing soil erosion and damage to trees and much more.
The animals we have would be over running parts of the country. So if you are going to have to manage the animals by culling them then put the skins etc to good purpose. Wasting such resources is criminal.
Eglantine you do yourself a disservice. It is the cumulative effect of many small 'insignificant' acts that amount to actions that move mountains. I share your ethical concerns about taking what seem to be the best solutions, but find often, not that two equally justifiable actions are actually in opposition to each other
How many of us wear leather shoes ? A lot of us I would say.
Oh that bold thing didn't work. It was the first time I've tried it. What did I do wrong?!!!!!
I seem to spend most of my life inethicalconfusion, Bluebell, trying to work out what's best to do for the planet!
Though I know my choices are insignificant in the wider scheme of things.
Hence my questions re natural materials as opposed to man made. I totally get not wanting to wear leather but have always been troubled by the plastic alternatives. As with the wearing of fleeces as an alternative to wool.
I thank Bold "durhamgen" for her answer. I am always put off when people skirt round an honestly asked question!
I am not sure of the sustainability of wearing artificial fibres, almost all of which are made from petrochemicals.
Animal predating and domestication preceded the introduction of farming, which has always been dependent on animal dung for fertility and while there is nothing in vegetarianism to conflict with the basics of agriculture. I do feel that veganism depends on other people not being vegan.
How do vegans ensure that the food they eat has not been produced using animal products?
But how many of us wear real leather shoes now, they are very expensive I don’t think I have any so why say that vegans must only wear rubber boots? and likewise wool, real wool clothes are very expensive and hard to wash and dry properly and again I don’t think I have any in my wardrobe So why are people saying ‘whatever do they wear’ most shoes and clothes are made of man made material nowadays
I ve never been a vegan although I was vegetarian for many years but not strict strict just didn’t eat meat and I still only eat very little meat
Despite the stereotype vegan trying to convert everybody they meet, all the vegans and vegetarians I know don't make a fuss about it. They just manage their choices as best they can.
The shoes for men look just like regular shoes, but you'd be hard pressed to get a nice pair of women's shoes that don't cost an arm and a leg. It is better now than it used to be, but from what I've seen vegan shoes for women are more expensive than regular shoes. It's the ethical aspect of the manufacturing that puts up the price.
That's getting ridiculous now, suedonim. Vegans aren't allowed a hospital bed, aren't they?
They pay rates and taxes as well as anyone else; in fact usually better than some as they tend to have social consciences as well.
I never wore wool, even before I was vegetarian as I am allergic to it. No wool carpets, either, and no feather pillows.
Lots of organic cotton, though, and bamboo now, as well as linen shirts.
The mutual friend & I have spent hours pondering the shoe question ourselves! We concluded that they must spend their entire lives in rubber wellies. 
They had a baby quite recently (when they were grateful for all mod cons such as a hospital bed and pain relief!) so I'm intrigued about that, as well.
On the subject of pets, I've just been reading something written by a doctor friend on mental health, which states the huge benefits to people of having pets. Far better than drugs etc!
I don't think anyone can answer some of the questions asked on here because each vegan decides for themselves how far they will take the idea of not using animal products. Being a vegan can be a difficult choice and some take several years before they have a settled vegan lifestyle. Most vegans are also environmentalists to some degree because the two go hand in hand.
The Vegan Society now defines veganism as "A philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of humans, animals and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals."
As far as clothes and accessories are concerned vegans wear/use fabrics like hemp, linen, cotton, canvas, polyester, synthetic leather (pleather), rubber and vinyl. Leather alternatives can come from materials such as cork, piña (from pineapples) and mushroom leather. Yes, this does mean sweaty feet! And they're often expensive because of where and how they are made. Layers of fabric can be just as warm as one heavy garment like a wool jumper though because the layers trap heat.
All medicine in the UK is required by law to be tested on animals before it can be used for humans. However, the Vegan Society does not recommended that vegans don't take medication prescribed for them, but they can ask the pharmacist if there's an option more suitable for them. For example, some capsules are made using gelatin, so a vegan would ask if there's an alternative available.
My brother was vegan for several years and used to travel to. Brighton to buy shoes. At the time Brighton had the only vegan shoe shop in the UK. He would also wear second hand clothing to reduce the environmental impact of buying new products. After several years he changed to become vegetarian, but he's one of the strictest I know.
I know you can buy vegan shoes but I want to know what shoes someone would wear if they are vegan and won't wear man-made items.
Home-made wooden clogs?
If anyone saw Judi Dench's programme on trees they would think twice about that too.
night owl, what are the non leather shoes made of? What fabrics do you wear when it's freezing cold? Why will no one give me a straight answer 
Well, I do know someone who always fed her dog a vegetarian diet as the whole family is.
And dogs can live a healthy life as vegetarians, but this particular dog did not.
The idea is that if you do not keep sheep for wool, the land the sheep would normally graze on can be used for growing crops to feed more people.
So the sheep population of the world would need to be got rid of in order to feed the growing world population?
Likewise cows, pigs would no longer inhabit this earth.
Can dogs be vegetarian? Aren't there teeth designed for a carnivorous diet?
They are vegan but also spurn anything man-made so no plastics or anything.
It was what SueDonim said that made me wonder what they wore on their feet.
So a very strict vegan would consider it was better for dogs to run in packs, killing and eating what they could find, rather than be cared for by people who could, if they wanted, feed the dog a vegetarian diet.
But what would happen to the cats, dogs, guinea pigs etc if we didn't take them into our homes and chop bits off them? They'd become feral, diseased and over run. And cats, dogs and guinea pigs are sociable, domesticated creatures who have looked to humans for shelter and food for millennia. My cat's looking worried, lest I turf him out for a wee late at night never mind telling him to fend for himself! 
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