Do vegans wear wool?

I have just read this about B12.

"B12 is made by bacteria in soil and water. Traditionally, farmed animals got their B12 from eating food from the ground, which was taken up into their body cells and is how B12 ends up in meat and dairy products. Modern factory farming methods have changed the nature of farmed animal food and cattle and sheep now need B12 supplements too!

The B12 used in fortified foods and supplements (cyanocobalamin) is produced commercially by growing bacterial cultures in large vats. Some 80 per cent of global production is in France and over a half of it is used to supplement animal feed. This makes the recommendation to eat animal products to obtain B12 somewhat invalid. Cut out the middleman and get it straight from the source. "
www.vivahealth.org.uk/healthfeatures/be-sure-about-b12

I wonder if there's a board game, Eloethan.

Yes, Wilma, why could they not make them like Scottish bank notes?
It's like making chocolates shiny by adding shellac, not realising it's an animal product.
We noticed some chocolate coated ginger with shellac in a well-known store, so told them, as it was labellled suitable for vegans. It doesn't have shellac any more.

In fact I am not a fan of egg-cell culture. There are better ways and ones that carry less risk of an adverse reaction.

Why do people think that asking a perfectly reasonable question for information is finding ways in which vegans fail? I understand that vegans can get a lot of hassle from self righteous members of the Carnivore Club, but best to do as Wilma did and simply answer the question?

Thank you for answering that fully and fairly Wilma

I couldn't agree more Eloethan.

I don't understand why people feel the need to find ways in which vegans are likely to fail. I find it hard enough eating no meat (and sometimes lapse) so I greatly admire anyone who has the tenacity and willpower to be a vegan. Of course, there are likely to be areas where they fail because it is very difficult to avoid animal products but at least they are doing their best to live by their beliefs.

The door isn't closed on the bank notes jen. The Vegan Society did say it believed the Bank of England is committed to solving the problem and it will continue to work with it to find a solution. It's unfortunate, but at least the BofE didn't know about the problem before contracts were signed.

Related, but not on topic, when we were in Scotland at Christmas we noticed the Scottish bank notes were not nearly as slippery as the BofE notes. It would be good if the BofE notes could be made more like Scottish notes.

I am surprised nobody's mentioned £5 and £10 notes yet as well.
Can you avoid them though djen?
Awful things, bouncing around - I try to get rid of them as fast as possible.

I am surprised nobody's mentioned £5 and £10 notes yet as well.

Not everybody knows that flu vaccines are grown in eggs.
Not everybody knows that wine is cleared using egg white, or sturgeons swim bladders.
Not everybody knows that some cheeses are still coagulated with rennet from a calf's stomach.

Vegans try to educate themselves on these things, but sometimes, animal products can't be avoided.

I am told that the best thyroid gland product to use is from dead animals. I'd rather not use it, thanks.
I do not use gelatine capsules either, surprisingly enough.

I read about this the other day when I was posting about live and inactive vaccines. When it comes vaccines vegans weigh up the risk against the benefit just like anybody else. The Vegan Society defines veganism as

Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose.

It's the bit in bold that matters because most, if not all will have been tested on animals and humans at some point and some will have been propagated on chick embryos.

Plenty of vegan mothers allow their children to have the basic vaccinations because they know how terrible the diseases in question can be. A lot of vegans don't like the anti-vaccination reputation vegans have because it paints the whole vegan community as unreasonable or sensible. I think this is an example of the perception that vegans are all very much all or nothing. They probably do more research on subjects than the rest of us before making a decision on something we just go ahead and do.

There was a court case last year in the UK where a vegan mother refused to allow her children to have the regular vaccinations. The children's father disagreed and the court found in the father's favour and the children were vaccinated.

It could have been on the thread about flu

Sorry - someone said it somewhere ....

It could have been me

Doubt it Jalima but there again, I’m always being told by my children that I’ve akready told them something.

That thought occurred to me too when I read a post on here (was it yours, Oldmeg)

Just a thought that occurred to me in the middle of the night - do Vegans have vaccines, such as flu vaccines, which are usually grown in eggs?

I agree that meat eating has to be greatly reduced. Dairy too. I can afford to pay more for meat and dairy but most people cannot afford to do so. Our nutrition is closely connected to our incomes. Two things are essential:

1. Meat and dairy hugely increased in price for animal welfare, decreased consumption, and better quality(eg. no prophylactic antibiotics).

2, Basic minimum wage so that every person can afford to buy and eat decent food.

Janeainsworth and Jalima, thanks. Did it.

On the other site, Alexa, click on forums, click on health and a yellow box will come up saying 'Start a New Discussion' - click on that and choose a heading.

You may have done that already, of course

CIWF is a charity. It will have to submit audited accounts to the Charity Commission.

You're right DJ, CiWF website doesn't really give any figures on its Annual Review page. I feel sure the figures (donations, money in/out) should be available. Should we be suspicious?

Lots of deer in Norfolk. Muntjac, Roe, Chinese Water Deer, Red deer and I believe a few Fallow in the west. They're becoming a bit of a problem eating crops. There are more road kill deer than there are pheasants! Apparently the only way to stop farmers killing them to exterminate them is to eat a few and make them profitable. We've upset the balance. Perhaps having a mix of vegan, vegetarian and omnivore is the answer.

alexa if you’re on the mobile site, tap on forums, then tap on health.
Scroll to the bottom where the maroon buttons are.
The middle one is ‘add a thread’. Tap on that.
Hope that helps.

Would some helpful gran please tell me where on the GN forums, possibly on the Health forum, I can post a recommendation about the following article in today's Guardian? It is accurate and lucid. It's so well written and sorely needed that I have bought the author's book from the Guardian book store(reduced price store).

www.theguardian.com/media/2018/jan/07/johann-hari-depression-brain-lost-connections-book-interview

I have initiated a new topic previously but I seem to have forgotten how to do it.

Written by the director general of the International Livestock Research Institute?
He's not going to talk himself out of a job, is he?

Baggs I'd forgotten about that article, so I appreciate you posting the link. It really highlights the fact that our own circumstances can be so different to others. The report the article links to is not particularly easy to read, but for me the article and the report together highlight the fact that one solution does not work for everyone - and that one solution is veganism.

A subsistence farmer can not be compared with factory farming. This is the reality of the world we live in today. So we each make our own choices and try to live a good life.

I just wanted to add that although I've been vegetarian for a long time now, my husband is not. I made the decision to become fully vegetarian at the millennium, so for almost 18 years of our marriage it's been normal to have a vegetarian and a meat eater in the house. It's second nature now and never causes problems.

Just let people make their own choices.