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(16 Posts)
Kamala23 Wed 10-Jul-19 18:59:57

This is my first post. I have a close friend, who lives nearby. She lives alone ( has a son and daughter with families) and was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s about four years ago - she is 72. She has managed quite well but is getting worse recently. I am in touch with her daughter and we recently discussed carers and care homes. She has a good pension and owns her own home. There is an excellent care home nearby but it is of course very expensive.
Pension plus renting out her home would not cover the cost. What I would like to know is what happens if the house is sold and used to pay for her care but all the money goes before she dies - would they evict her?

Tedber Wed 10-Jul-19 19:18:11

I think your friend's family need to get more expert advice than on here t.b.h because I think this is a very complex issue! It also maybe differs from area to area? and possibly home to home too?

I don't think they would evict her once the money dried up because she would then be eligible for state funding but just how much of the money would need to be utilised for 'care' is not anything I can comment on.

I do know that my mum's neighbours are in care now. One has a terminal illness and the other dementia BUT the house is being taken over by their daughter so hasn't been sold to pay for it! Daughter has another house in another part of the country which she is selling to live in her parents house. Just WHAT money they have I have no idea but speaking to daughter, they are not 'loaded' in any way!

She has also made no mention of having to pay for her parents care? Which I think she would do as she speaks about everything if you know what I mean?

MrsJamJam Wed 10-Jul-19 19:20:16

Will be very interested to share in the replies you get. We are in the same situation with my mother. She moved - at her own request - into a very nice care home last autumn and we put her retirement flat on the market. So far no luck selling, even though it is a pleasant flat and not over priced, and she has now run through all her other savings. Luckily one brother has been able to organise a loan which he will service with the agreement of other siblings and he will be repaid from the proceeds when the flat sells. But the money will still run out in a few years, and the home is so good that Mother has taken on a new lease of life. No dementia but PD so very physically disabled though mentally pretty good.

Grannyben Wed 10-Jul-19 19:35:48

A family member has been in this position. He went into a care home on a temporary basis (2 weeks respite) but, was not well enough to leave. His home was put on the market and, until it sold, a charge was put on his home for his monthly fees. As soon as it was sold, the proceeds of sale were put into an account which is also topped up with his pensions. The care home are then paid and, he has been told that when his money goes below a certain level (16,000 but then on a sliding scale?) He will receive free care without having to move.

Doodle Wed 10-Jul-19 19:41:47

I am so sorry to hear about your friend. She is very young to be dealing with this.
I will not advise but will just share the story of my brother.
My brother showed signs of Alzheimer’s 4 years before he died. His wife was aware of the problems long before this bit they did not manifest themselves to others before this. He died 4 years and 3 moths later and was in a care home for 18 months before he died. My beloved SIL kept him at home for as long as she could putting her own health and safety at risk to keep him with her. My dear brother was the kindest of men and never would harm another especially the wife he loved so much but the Alzheimer’s destroyed so much of himself that he would on occasions hit out if he got frightened or felt that someone was doing things to him he did not want.
Fortunately for my brother he did not have this awful illness before he was about 87. This must be really awful for your friend. I suggest that you and her family look at how bad she is at the moment and see if home help could cover a period of time.
With regard to my brother, despite being 87 he was in excellent health. My dear SIL worried that he would live many years with this awful illness because he was so fit otherwise. The reality is that dementia does affect the body and despite people’s general good health many die of some problem with the lungs. I think the best thing would be to provide the best care for your friend while she has some idea of what’s going on and see how things go. My brother who had money enough to self fund was on a fantastic care home for 18 months. Had he survived his last visit to hospital he would not have been able to go back there despite being able to afford it because his needs had changed and he would have needed constant nursing care as his health condition had deteriorated so much. Not sure if this is of any help but your friend is lucky to have people who care,

Kamala23 Fri 12-Jul-19 18:43:23

Thank you all for your helpful replies. It’s such a shame because otherwise my friend is very fit and healthy. She is still able to discuss her situation and says she would be quite happy to go into a home when the time comes. Her AC will pay for carers for as long as possible ( although she is not keen to have them at the moment). She has lost a lot of weight so we don’t think she is remembering to eat. The amount the council would pay if her money runs out would not even cover half the cost. No one seems to be able to give the assurances that we need.

kittylester Fri 12-Jul-19 20:40:16

I suggest that you talk to AgeUk. Their advice is excellent.

Willow500 Sat 13-Jul-19 06:40:36

Things may well have changed over the last few years but both my parents had dementia. Mum went into care first and her pension went towards the fees - they were below the threshold for saving so we didn't have to top this up and as dad was still living in their bungalow that wasn't taken into account. Once he went in he was fully funded by both SS & NHS as needing 24 hour care and the council then took out a second charge on the property to pay the fees for my mum. It took time to sell the house by which time I had managed to secure full funding for her too - she was totally immobile, doubly incontinent, unable to speak or feed herself. The house finally sold the same week she passed away and we had to pay the council from the proceeds.

It's very sad your friend now needs full time care after managing on her own for so long. As I say rules (and different counties) may have changed but I don't believe a care home can just turf someone out if their money has run out. It might be worth investigating care homes in the area for her and her family to look into if and when the time finally comes for her to move into one.

GracesGranMK3 Sat 13-Jul-19 07:52:55

No social care is free. If the Local Authority (LA) decided you need care they will assess you and try and provide it in your own home. In this case your income and savings, excluding your home can be assessed and you will be told what the LA will pay. At this point watch out for "top-ups". Most LAs have a ceiling on what they will pay per hour and you will have to pay the amount assessed by th LA plus a "top-up" to reach the companies actual charges if they are higher than the LAs ceiling.

It is worth getting the LA involved even if you decide to move into a home and know you will be paying in full. This way an assessment of your needs will be done. Often people go into a home after a stay in hospital. Your LA will have a general cap on how many home visits they will pay for. For example, in our area it is four half-hour visits.

If it is assessed that you need more than this the LA will look for a home that is within what they allow as a room rate and that suits your needs. If they are likely to be paying this home could be anywhere within your local authorities and I believe some go into neighbouring areas. They will try to keep you close to relatives but that is not always possible.

You get the first 12 weeks in the home assessed on your income and savings, excluding your home. If you have been working with the LA you should also get a visit from your sociable worker at some point to assess that the home is meeting you needs.

After 12 weeks the assessment for what you pay includes the value of your home. If you cannot afford to pay this you may be offered a loan by the LA which is discharged on completion of the sale.

Payment in full will continue until your savings including those from the sale of your home reach £23,250. At this point you will be assessed with an amount included, at an assumed income, based on your savings between £14,250 and £23,250. Rather than assessing what you pay at this point you pay all but the amount the LA says you must be left with. This is usually around £25 to £30 a week. You are then reassessed annually and when you savings fall below £14,250 an assumed amount of income ceases to be added.

This is based on my knowledge of our local authority. It may vary from LA to LA as social care is not a national service.

GracesGranMK3 Sat 13-Jul-19 08:00:52

Just a point about Willow's post. I feel Willow did very well getting Continuing National Health Care, paid for by the NHS. It is for cases such as her parents, where there is a need for continuing, long-term healthcare. This is getting harder and harder to get and Alzheimer's on its own, unless you can show a 'health-care' need as Willow did, rarely meets the criteria.

annsixty Sat 13-Jul-19 08:17:37

In my Husbands case ,Alzheimer’s, a severe stroke and finally cancer were not enough to get full funding.
Two different SW also told me both his state pension and all of his private pension would be taken and we lost AA.
I challenged this and I was allowed, as was my right, to keep half his private pension.
I realise this doesn’t apply in the OP’S scenario but it might help others to know.

granfromafar Sat 13-Jul-19 08:19:40

Your friend needs to get in touch with her local authorities so that she can be assessed by a social worker. Also suggest that she signs up to the Alzheimers society forum which is similar to GN in that you can ask any questions you like and wonderful people give advice on any subject related to Alzheimers. Good luck.

Kamala23 Sat 13-Jul-19 10:56:31

Thank you. Will do that now.

Kamala23 Sat 13-Jul-19 10:57:48

Thank you for this clear explanation and guidance. I will follow your advice - or at least pass it on to her children.

Kamala23 Sat 13-Jul-19 10:59:11

Sorry, the last comment was meant for Gracesgran.

kittylester Sat 13-Jul-19 17:09:55

My mum didnt get full funding despite being bedridden because of Alzheimers disease.

Talking Point is the Alzheimer's forum which you can find on the Alzheimer's Society website.

But, ask AgeUk or download their fact sheets. They are the best source of information and brilliant at it.