Over 70s

What kind if people are you? Maybe you're of Swedish descent? How can you find such a vile inhumane policy 'interesting' and relate it in ANY positive way to the current crisis? Beyond.....

Also, if we are considering gender, ethnic origins and disability as risk factors we should also study cultures and outcomes where certain risk factors have been almost eliminated.

It is historical fact patriciageegee.

I'm surprised you were unaware of it.
And did it influence the Swedish decisions on their approach towards locking down?
Sweden has been held up as an example of not going into total lockdown but having fewer cases of COVID19 than other countries.
Why?

How do we know that callistemon? And the fact that it was posted with the comment that it's a 'factor to be taken into consideration' whether or not she 'advocated' it is utterly repugnant and has no place in a tolerant, compassionate discussion such as this.

Were you talking about Swedish Government policy on lockdown Eglantine
It is an interesting thought.
Horrendous, but interesting nonetheless.

Eglantine has said exactly my thoughts. Those of you who think it's fine to take your chances and refuse treatment - there is no knowing how many people you have infected before refusing treatment. My daughter in law is a nurse, one of her colleagues was the Doctor who passed away earlier this week. He had been on a ventilator for weeks. She and the rest of the staff are devastated. I will be doing whatever is necessary as will the rest of my family and friends.

If, scientifically, you know that the majority of your population is strong you may be prepared to take more risks.

No, it’s a fact of history.

I’m not 70 yet but husband is over 70. As we don’t get on well the thought of this going on is already affecting my mental health. The only thing that keeps me going is the prospect of seeing my children and grandchildren and new baby due in the summer.

I don't think for one minute it influenced government decision making, patriciageegee , but it is true that Sweden practised eugenics for very many years.

Are you actually f*cking joking eglantine????? That's the most shocking, disgusting post I've ever seen on any forum.

Sweden is interesting b cause from 1934 till 1976 they pursued a state programme of eugenics where anyone considered physically, genetically or mentally deficient was compulsorily sterilised often as an infant.

So the current Swedish population has mostly been bred from the genetically sound and healthy.

If m not advocating this in any way but it is a factor to take into consideration and may have influenced the government approach.

Not happy at the prospect at all. My hubby got "the letter" today (extremely vulnerable) and should not go out. The problem is that we live in a village where there is no bus service, no shops, no Church even! I am partially sighted and therefore cannot drive. I have arthritis in my feet and Type 2 Diabetes also. I have gone shopping alone before (taxi at £10 each way), but I cannot read "use by" dates, and will mix up similar items. There is no one in the village able to help, as most are similar ages (over 70) and many are equally vulnerable (there are only 10 houses in our street). Without my husband's help - I'm really going to struggle. He is more disabled than me - but this prescribed confinement is really going to harm his mental health. He feels bad that I have to do all the housework and cooking already and if he can't drive me around and help me to shop, I don't know what he will do. I don't think he would survive 12 to 18 months "lockdown". The summer months are bad for us, as he suffers from the heat. We have two tall fans, but he still sweats heavily in warm weather, and that makes his skin cancer worse. We had hoped to sell our house and move to the North of Scotland where it is almost always a few degrees cooler - but obviously we can no longer host viewings and people wouldn't come, in any event. I'm really worried for him now.

The death rate in Sweden is no more than ours in UK even though they do not have lockdown. I think they are aiming for the herd immunity which our government was keen on in the first few weeks before they realized that our hospitals could not cope. Then these Nightingale hospitals were rushed up but where is all the equipment and medical staff going to come from? So for now they lie empty or nearly so.
Perhaps we should do what has happened in the past and still does in some countries - let a family member, already exposed to the virus, sit by the patient and deal with basic personal care. Monitors could alert a trained person to spot signs of deterioration.

I keep hearing the ‘flatten the peak’ reasoning. It makes sense but doesn’t mean that you won’t get the virus. Every time your delivery person-if you’ve been lucky enough to get one, (which I haven’t)- leaves shopping it could be contaminated. Evidently you can pick it up on your shoes-so walking outside to pick up your shopping could kill you.
For some family and friends it won’t be the virus that kills them it will be losing their jobs, their income and eventually their homes.
If grandparents are still on lockdown, they can’t do childcare, so the parents are in a cleft stick. Work and put their children into mixed boiling pots of child care or don’t work.
It’s a difficult decision, but people will have to make it.
Giving people more positive actions to take-taking more care, wear masks and gloves, still avoid being too close might be more helpful.
But people are all different. On my last weekly visit to the supermarket-masked and gloved, I watched a woman who I know pontificates in Gransnet about staying in, picking up and squeezing fruit, in spite of the notices above every box saying not to do that. Do I think she’ll care if her actions kill someone?

It's not the transmission of viruses in general which is unproven eglantine but any definitive science on treatment and containment of covid-19. There is no authorative consensus on approach, if there were governments all over the world would be applying it. Instead, we have a suck it and see mentality which may or may not work but in the meantime drastically affects people's lives.

Judy54 it is not wrong and discriminatory
It is based on statistics, computer modelling, and it is in order to flatten the peak and not overwhelm the NHS.

It is for practical reasons rather than to protect us as individuals.

Many supposedly fit and healthy older people do lead very active lives, play tennis, belong to the Ramblers, play golf etc.
However, I do know of more than a couple who have died when carrying out these activities.

Yes older people have poorer immune systems than young ones. However I know many over 70's myself and my OH included who are far fitter than overweight smokers in their 40's who do not exercise. Having said that our son aged 44 is with us as he is immunocompromised and had had "the letter", he had to come here as his wife works at a GP surgery and her sister who lives with them is an ICU Nurse. We have no intention of putting his or anybody else life at risk. If it does go on for a long time hopefully his wife and daughter can come and see him and us from a distance.
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Thank you Eglentine21 that makes a lot of sense.

A few weeks ago a chart in a National paper showed risk of dying higher for men in 55-65 age range than women in 65-75 range. Women apparently have stronger immune systems (more boy babies die in 1st year) because it is the x chromosome that carries the immune defences, and we have twice as many.
I also saw an article claiming that the government are considering adopting a system once lockdown starts to ease up, based on not just age but also state of health and fitness. This makes more sense but I still have issues with it - see below.

Unfortunately Judy it’s the virus that has chosen the age group, not the Government. Our bodies have aged, our resistance and recovery is much, much lower than younger people. It’s biology.

I don’t think the transmission of a virus is an unproven hypothesis. We have known for over a hundred years how viruses are transmitted, especially airborne ones.

Unfortunately most of the posters have shown that they do not have any compassion or thought for others so I think you’re on a loser there. As indeed we all will be if people cease to isolate.

But we can as a society chose individual freedom over death toll. Just be aware that this is what you are choosing and that your family is not invulnerable.

People just don’t believe it will hit them.

I'd rather there be Big Brother checks on each citizen such as was practised in South Korea and Taiwan than this wholly uncertain way of life we find ourselves in, with no end in sight for many.

This is a difficult one. Many over 70's are fit and active and play golf, go to the gym and walk with the Ramblers etc. It is understandable that over 70's and younger people with underlying health problems are being asked to continue to stay at home. Choosing a particular age group feels wrong and discriminatory.