DS & DIL struggling with IVF

I suspect that most, if not all of the people not agreeing with IVF have been lucky enough to have their own children so it is easy to say, "Learn to live with it." Actually living with infertility is much more difficult.

Again, I'm so grateful for all your thoughts. I will be talking to DS on Facetime this weekend. I know all I can do is sympathise and offer a listening ear. I remember my late mother's brutal tendency to say what she was thinking, honesty being the best policy in her mind, and I am so anxious not to blurt out something that would be incredibly hurtful and inappropriate.

I won't say, don't worry, they can't stop worrying. I won't say, it doesn't matter, because right now it matters very much, to them. I have thought, but won't say, is there a reason for everything? No, I don't buy that. And we are not religious (neither are DIL's family) so I'm not putting it in the hands of some imagined higher power. I have thought, but won't say, perhaps it's for the best, perhaps the repeated failure of implanted embryos to stay put indicates there would be problems down the line if the pregnancy did continue - a later miscarriage would surely be more devastating than a failed implantation. Of course I won't use the word 'fail' - the procedure might have failed but the last thing I want is for DS and DIL to feel that either one of them is failing. I can't think of anything they WOULD like me to say, other than that I love them no matter what. But love doesn't make it better.

Gagajo thank you for mentioning your experience with medical treatment, it's reassuring. DS has had minor surgery once or twice there without problems, but he has commented on a perception that you might be expected to 'pay under table', and that's an uncomfortable thought. Generally he has not encountered hostility at all and he loves the country, only DIL's former employer was very vocally and unpleasantly opposed to her involvement with a foreigner and that did shock them both. He is polite, respectful and kind, not given to rubbing people up the wrong way, so I will discount that nagging question.

Twiglett, have no worries about how he'll be treated. I had a range of medical treatment in China and they were unfailingly lovely. In my experience of the Chinese, these live foreigners. A refreshing attitude after the British attitude towards immigrants.

Iam64

Thanks Summerlove

You’re welcome.

Thanks Summerlove

I have to say, as an adopted person, all the people saying

“If they can’t, they can just adopt”

As though adopting is a second best booby prize, I hope you don’t speak like that around your (adopted) grandchildren. It’s very othering and certainly comes across as though we are second best!

As is said so often here, words matter. Please think about how you are using yours.

People should only adopt if they have a true calling to adopt. Not just “because we can’t have natural children”. Adoptees don’t exist to fill a need.

Summerlove

While I agree with most of jaylucys advice, please please don’t mention this to anyone struggling with fertility

I have lost count of the couples that decided to step off the roundabout that fell pregnant naturally ( 1 couple had adopted, several others were going through the process of adoption and one couple even took off on a round world trip!) So there may still be hope.

It’s extremely hurtful, and in most cases patently untrue.

I agree, Summerlove

This gets said so often and in reality very few people stop IVF and then go on to conceive naturally

While I agree with most of jaylucys advice, please please don’t mention this to anyone struggling with fertility

I have lost count of the couples that decided to step off the roundabout that fell pregnant naturally ( 1 couple had adopted, several others were going through the process of adoption and one couple even took off on a round world trip!) So there may still be hope.

It’s extremely hurtful, and in most cases patently untrue.

The desperation of wanting to have a baby is totally different to anything else.
Soon after we married, back in the early sixties, my husband was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis. For first few years this had little effect on him, but he was told by a Consultant that it was unlikely that he would ever be able to father a child.
I was so desperately unhappy, particularly as time went on and friends and relatives all started their families. It was a horrible few years, and when I found myself actually crossing a very busy main road just to avoid going past a shop selling prams and cots, I knew I had to to something about it.
Somehow it made it slightly easier to actually tell people that we COULD NOT have children (this was long before IVF), and I started a 'mature' students teachers training course.
Before I had completed the first year I was pregnant, did not enjoy pregnancy one little bit - I was so overwhelmed with worries about this baby - feeling it was my one and only chance. He was born healthy and will be 51 years old in a couple of months time. I then went on to have three further easy pregnancies, the final one resulting in twins,. And then we fostered babies. Even with all these children it was years before I did not have that horrible jump of envy in my stomach whenever anyone told me they were pregnant.
Nobody who has not been through this can really understand, and some of the stories on here have moved me to tears.
Twiglet77 - nothing you can really do or say can help. But, do not just ignore it and leave it as the elephant in the room. Your son may wish to unload his feelings, and his concern for his much loved wife as well as his own feelings of being deprived of something that so many people take for granted,.
DO not know about the men, but as a young woman I did feel that I was a failure in not being able to become pregnant - no amount of logic can take that away.
My DiL decided that she did not want children, so she and son are childless, They are (or appear to be) extremely happy with their lives - but then, of course, she never went through that desperation of wanting.....etc...
Do hope that there is a good ending, whatever it is.

Thank you all so very much for sharing your thoughts. I can't advise them - of course, whatever they do is their choice and theirs alone - but it's so hard to know what to say. "I'm so sorry, what sad news" is so inadequate.

They knew an inter-cultural marriage would have its challenges. Socially it is difficult. DIL was bullied out of a very good job as her boss wouldn't accept that she had married a western man. Her family are wonderful and live very nearby, she lost her mother when she was very small her father, stepmother and brother love my son unconditionally and do all they can to embrace and support them, but they can't fix this. I have met DIL only a few times, they come over here every 2-3 years (I can't afford to go there), she is a delight and I absolutely adore her, but I don't know her in the way her family know my son. She speaks almost no English so he translates everything, it does inhibit conversation even without the strain of such a difficult and emotional subject.

My elder DD asked if they'd considered surrogacy and apparently DS was furious. I don't know whether he would be allowed to adopt there anyway, but I'm sure they won't consider it yet. I can't imagine the toll it is taking on DIL's body but as long as the clinics will allow it I imagine they will keep trying. I even wonder whether the clinics are hostile to him as he is foreign. I can't say that, though.

I don't understand how it can feel to have the all-consuming desperation for a child, but then I've never had to worry about it. Infertility probably isn't something anyone can empathise with unless they have personal experience.

Your kind thoughts are really very much appreciated, thank you all.

Having experienced 2 unsuccessful rounds of IVF I feel your DIL and DS's pain. It's a very difficult process to go through with many, many hurdles to cross for each round of treatment.

We chose to tell only 2 very supportive friends because many people who have never experience fertility issues can be judgemental which only adds to the pain. We deliberately didn't tell MIL because we had already heard her bitch about 'selfish' childless couples and infertile couples who should 'just adopt' as if it was as easy as buying a new car.

If you haven't been in this situation, you haven't a clue about the emotions it brings with it. OP you sound supportive of your DS and DIL, please don't suggest adoption or alternative therapies including relaxing. Believe me, they will have explored every avenue and considered all the options.

Just listen and be kind.

I had two children by IVF and then a third conceived naturally. I always said I’d give my left hand to have a baby. My plan B was too adopt.
Just be supportive and sympathetic, which I’m sure you are.

There is little that you can do but be supportive. It’s very sad for them, and the obsession can take over their lives, and possibly wreck their marriage. They are the only ones to be able to take the decision to stop, though. I have been blessed with my adopted daughter, but adoption isn’t as easy nowadays, and not everyone feels that it is right for them.
My friend’s DD and SIL went through several rounds of unsuccessful IVF. Her DD was in a terrible state, each time. I think that sometimes your body knows that you are stressed out, and decides that it’s not a good time to have a baby. She was becoming desperate.
Then a friend of theirs had a family crisis, and the DD stepped in to help them. I don’t know if the fact that she was distracted from all the pregnancy stuff helped, or not, but she conceived twins naturally, not long after, then had another baby two years later.
My own DD came late to marriage, and was told, at 40, that her eggs were ‘getting past their use-by date’, with little chance of a natural pregnancy. One of her friends offered to donate eggs, and with the very first implantation she was lucky to get pregnant, and have a lovely daughter. By then she was 44, so they decided not to attempt to implant another embryo. Just one round of the treatment really took it out of her. Five must by physically and mentally exhausting.

Hi after 8 yrs of trying and 5 courses of IVF we were lucky enough 31 yrs ago to get pregnant with twins we miscarried one embro at 13 weeeks but the other clung on and we have a 31 yr old son and two grandchildren now of 3 and 10 mths. It was very hard and straining Both mentally and physically and you need a really strong marriage to go through it all but looking back I would have done the same and if we hadn’t been in debt would have tried again for a second child. I send my good wishes to you and the family, send them love ?

magsymoo well put and thank you.

It's really not helpful for some posters on here saying that they don't really approve of IVF, people can have a good life without children, it can lead to ill health and all the rest of the negative comments. Couples undergoing IVF know all of this, there is so much information out there, but they are prepared to take the risk to achieve their dream.
What they need is the unconditional love and support of their families while they endure it, and sometimes money as well if possible.
My daughter had 4 rounds of IVF at considerable expense in terms of money, pain, fear and grief. I said I would support her in any decision she made but not to stop just because of money, only if she couldn't take it any more. I would have mortgaged my house to enable her to achieve her family if that's what it took. She had a baby in the middle of lockdown! She will go through it all again next year. I have been terrified for her throughout but this is about her , not me.
Not everybody can cope with adoption and not everybody's fertility issue can be solved by healthy eating and vitamins. It is really not for us to judge but to be eternally grateful if we and our own children managed to effortlessly conceive.

My heart goes out to you. My DD and SiL are going through IVF. Two failed efforts so far and poor care from one of the country's supposedly best womens hospital took its toll. My DD was about to call quits on their marriage when last Christmas she became pregnant naturally but miscarried 8 weeks later. They are now hoping to try IVF again if their funding can be transferred to a different clinic. Please understand that wanting a baby is not like wanting a bar of chocolate when you are on a diet or wanting a dress you can't afford. It is the deepest almost primeval longing. It makes no difference if we talk about amoeba and lichens or elephants and great whales, the only reason why nature in any form exists is to reproduce and continue the species. Having nice holidays and a comfortable lifestyle is no compensation at all if every atom of your being is longing for a child of your own. And never forget the impact on the family and friends. My DD's situation is always the "elephant in the corner". My other DD has 2 DCs, they would like a third, but would feel almost guilty if they did. My DS is engaged and hope to start a family soon. He is already dreading telling his sister if his fiancee becomes pregnant. My DD's friends find themselves apologising when they announce their pregnancies. My heart breaks for my DD . Watching her pain is utterly destroying for all of us.

Esspee I, like you cannot understand this drive to keep going with IVF. I know humans intervene in all sorts of health issues now many of them not life threatening but to make life easier for us. Not all work. IVF is one of those interventions. Your DS and DIL should look to have a life together with all the advantages of not having children. There can be a wonderful life for them.

But all that healthy eating, optimum health etc would make the poor couple feel even more depressed and like failures if it didn't work.
It also doesn't explain why some very unhealthy people get pregnant far too easily. I am thinking of the birth mother of my adopted nephew who had 6 DC by 6 fathers and was a heroin addict. He was born with foetal drug syndrome.

Good luck to you all. I do believe that anxiety and worry can hinder fertility which is why you hear of people who get pregnant naturally after giving up all hope and adopting a child.

IVF is emotionally and financially draining but I fully understand why couples do it However, after failing to conceive, and subsequently rejected for baby adoption by UK adoption agency, as they were in the forties, a very good friend of mine adopted two lovely Chinese girls from a Chinese orphanage, one was adopted at 9 months old, and the second adoption was at nearly two. They have both been a delight to them. The process, 18 years or so ago was very time consuming as they had to be approved by both UK social services and chinese authorities. The eldest will be off to university soon.

Athenia and glammagran, I remember Foresight too! I remember thinking that their thinking made a huge amount of sense, and I still wonder how very different the world would be if our focus was on getting people to their optimum health rather than waiting for them to fall ill and then try and repair them.

Athenia, I think you are referring to Foresight. After an almost 20 year gap between children I tried to conceive for almost a year and I ended up having a late termination due to severe abnormalities. We joined Foresight and within 3 months of following their advice after analysis I became pregnant straight away and had we had our daughter 27) who now has her own daughter whom we love dearly.

Would they consider adoption? Or fostering? So many children are in Care or homes and desperate for homes and loving parents

No-one has to go down the IVF route, there is another way. It was pioneered by a Guildford nursery teacher, Nim Barnes, who realised that the children she taught were increasingly showing signs of chemical damage from food, allergies for example. She created a charity to help women conceive naturally, and the success rate was phenomenal. Working with the university of Surrey, and trained doctors, couples experiencing problems or who had had a baby with a disability, were tested for their mineral and vitamin status in their blood and hair. Then they were asked to stop trying to conceive for the next six months, eating organically as much as possible and taking the bits and mins prescribed. No alcohol either. The aim was to reach an excellent level of health in both parents before conception. After six months and another test, if all was well they could try for a baby. The success level was phenomenal, at 86%, even with the parents coming to her with all their previous problems ie a very skewed sample. In private, she told me once at an AGM that she reckoned that she could get anyone to have a healthy baby with this simple strategy. I recommend it. There are some practitioners who use this, who can be found on the internet in the UK, although the charity has now closed.

Two of my grandchildren were IVF babies. My daughter was lucky and was successful at the first attempt. No 2 took a bit more doing but not too much compared with some. But without going into details, the marriage broke down later and IVF was certainly a factor. My daughter also has some physical health issues which may be attributable to to process too.

So it is not an easy path. I said very little but just tried to be supportive generally.
It does seem to become an obsession once a couple goes down that road and maybe, just maybe, parenthood is not for everyone, but that is so hard to accept.