home schooling... grammar

you your

Deedaa

In the early 60s I got a distinction in O level English Language. In the 90s my daughter did the same in A Level English. Neither of us have ever heard of the things her boys are being taught now. I would be much happier if they would just concentrate on stopping children saying would of!

It's rather sad that having, by the sound of it, enjoyed your education, you don't think it should get better over time and offer you grandchildren more. It has always been the case that education changes and moves on. One of the subjects on my father's school report was Electricity. Are you suggesting we just hold things back and stay where we were in the 1920s/30s just so no one's nose is put out of joint?

Welbeck
Can I politely ask ? why you don’t use capital letters?

My thoughts exactly Bodach.
But are we being wound up ?.

Nandalot

DGC ( 10 year old twins) seem quite confident about most of the terminology they have to use including fronted adverbials. My main concern is that it might encourage over emphasis on such things and actually be inhibiting. I marked SATs papers a few years back and this was obviously the case with some centres. The overuse of techniques made the writing rather clunky rather than enhancing it.

Thank you for sharing your experience, Nandalot.

Deedaa

In the early 60s I got a distinction in O level English Language. In the 90s my daughter did the same in A Level English. Neither of us have ever heard of the things her boys are being taught now. I would be much happier if they would just concentrate on stopping children saying would of!

Teachers do not have the freedom to decide what to teach and how to assess.

welbeck

geekesse

Maggiemaybe

Oh no, I didn't mean that, geekesse.

I thought that Bodach's post was rude in the abrupt way it criticised welbeck's grammar.

In that case, I’m with Bodach!

and i'm with Maggiemaybe.

thank you Maggie; but it doesn't bother me.
little things please little minds.

Ah well, welbeck.
My little mind may disagree with your attitude towards the normal mores of written English, but it is certainly impressed by your consistency.....

In the early 60s I got a distinction in O level English Language. In the 90s my daughter did the same in A Level English. Neither of us have ever heard of the things her boys are being taught now. I would be much happier if they would just concentrate on stopping children saying would of!

We have great teaching and great teachers who are allowing children to express their feelings and thoughts. What more could we ask?

DGC ( 10 year old twins) seem quite confident about most of the terminology they have to use including fronted adverbials. My main concern is that it might encourage over emphasis on such things and actually be inhibiting. I marked SATs papers a few years back and this was obviously the case with some centres. The overuse of techniques made the writing rather clunky rather than enhancing it.

I was taught via the Wren and Martin Book of Grammar and Composition........best ever!

geekesse

Maggiemaybe

Oh no, I didn't mean that, geekesse.

I thought that Bodach's post was rude in the abrupt way it criticised welbeck's grammar.

In that case, I’m with Bodach!

and i'm with Maggiemaybe.

thank you Maggie; but it doesn't bother me.
little things please little minds.

Doodledog

I'm not sure that I agree. I think that it is often important to be able to work out why something is wrong, or to be able to ask someone to explain it, and without the vocabulary to do so this is made much more difficult.

i disagree.
that;s like saying someone who does not read music cannot sing in tune, or recognise when something is off tune.

Thank you for your support, geekesse. I thought that it was entirely appropriate - in the context of a thread about teaching/learning grammar - to question the distinctive lack of certain aspects of normal usage in welbeck's post. We pedants plough a lonely furrow, it seems, in these days of taking offence by proxy...

I don't think anyone needs to know all these different terms for verbs and so on.

As long as people can express themselves clearly, then that's good enough.

Besides, I have no idea about parsing and all that; I simply wasn't taught those things.

I was a languages teacher for years and I’d never heard ofa fronted adverbial Totally OTT and then they arrive at secondary school not knowing basics like noun/verb/adjective!

Witzend, are these different conditionals a feature of Arabic, or are they part of English grammar, too?

I have never heard of them, but see the examples you give as being about tenses.

Maggiemaybe

Oh no, I didn't mean that, geekesse.

I thought that Bodach's post was rude in the abrupt way it criticised welbeck's grammar.

In that case, I’m with Bodach!

Oh no, I didn't mean that, geekesse.

I thought that Bodach's post was rude in the abrupt way it criticised welbeck's grammar.

I'm sure I was taught other names for those conditional tenses, Witzend. But I'm equally sure I'll never remember what they were!

Maggiemaybe

^Did the basic grammar you learned at school include such niceties as using question marks where appropriate, and starting every sentence with a capital letter? It would seem not. Or have you decided to go your own way on these matters?^

I don't know how much grammar you were taught, Bodach. But you were obviously absent when lessons about good manners and consideration for others were given out.

I’m afraid I’m with Maggiemaybe here. I was taught that failing to punctuate and/or use capital letters in written communication shows bad manners and lack of consideration for others.

I’m not exactly a grammar novice, having studied several languages and taught English as a foreign language, but must say I’ve been bemused by the likes of ‘fronted adverbials’. I would definitely have to ask Mr Google!

I think I was very well taught at the primary stage, but it was limited to verb, noun, adjective, adverb, preposition, conjunction, phrase and clause, etc.
IIRC anything like past or present participles, came later, with foreign language study, inc. Latin.

One thing I’d never even heard of until I had to teach it someone else’s class of Arabic speakers, was the 3rd conditional. Nor had I realised that there were also 1st and 2nd conditionals - as a native speaker you’re not usually aware that structures you use every day have such names.

We taught it (students were mostly young males) like this:
If I win the lottery, I’ll buy a car. (1st)
If I won the lottery, I’d buy a car. (2nd)
If I’d won the lottery, I’d have bought a car. (3rd)

All so complicated for our poor learners!

Did the basic grammar you learned at school include such niceties as using question marks where appropriate, and starting every sentence with a capital letter? It would seem not. Or have you decided to go your own way on these matters?

I don't know how much grammar you were taught, Bodach. But you were obviously absent when lessons about good manners and consideration for others were given out.

welbeck

have you seen what they have to do in school now.
terms that most adults have never heard of, not need.
why do they need to do all this.
i would have hated it. it would have put me off any learning.
we did lots of comprehension exercises, and basic grammar.
also singing, poetry, music and movement. we learnt a lot of english usage and vocabulary by hearing it, singing etc.

Did the basic grammar you learned at school include such niceties as using question marks where appropriate, and starting every sentence with a capital letter? It would seem not. Or have you decided to go your own way on these matters?

My daughter who teaches GCSE and A level English tells me that her primary age child is being taught grammar at a level she was taught in the first year of her linguistics degree. She feels it has gone too far and stifles children’s enjoyment and interest in both language and literature, and she should know.

I supervised some of my grandson’s home learning during lockdown and was shocked by the number of grammatical terms he was expected to know. One piece of work included a comprehension test followed by a breakdown of words and grammatical structures he would extract from the text and develop in order to write a poem about the same subject. To be honest, this taking apart of a piece of literature in order to construct another piece of literature was stultifyingly boring and left me feeling I wouldn’t care if I never read the book it was taken from or saw anything to do with it ever again.