It really irks me!

welbeck

i know that i am older than several people on here, yet i feel i've slipped down a time warp in this discussion.
why would someone's daughter have a terrible time explaining to her husband that she would retain her name at work.
fifty years ago, forty even maybe, in the provinces.
but presumably it was more recent than that.
i don't recognise this world at all. i can't imagine such a man being an attractive prospect.
is it just me. most unusually i feel like i've wandered in lost, from MN.

My Grandmother retained her maiden name at work. She retired in 1965.

It's interesting that no one refers to a single man differently to a married man. And also how bachelor has a positive ring about it, while spinster has a negative ring. I also notice that in Korea women don't change their names. Mountbatten-Windsor is a made up name rather than their original German name. It is remarkably stupid as Mountbatten lost so many lives unnecessarily at sea with his first ship, that the Royal Navy refused to give him charge of another ship, sailors fell off when he changed course and sped suddenly. The Royal Family is a tax cheating organisation with large sums of money abroad. (The Paradise Papers). I think Markle and Middleton have achieved a lot themselves compared to Charles who was taken to court not long ago for cheating on his Corporation Tax and spent his marriage as an adulterer and Ann who was having an affair with Camilla's husband. This family has increased its wealth far, far more than any other Royal Family in Europe. Their PR machine works very hard. Who would want this name?

No, it’s not just you?

i know that i am older than several people on here, yet i feel i've slipped down a time warp in this discussion.
why would someone's daughter have a terrible time explaining to her husband that she would retain her name at work.
fifty years ago, forty even maybe, in the provinces.
but presumably it was more recent than that.
i don't recognise this world at all. i can't imagine such a man being an attractive prospect.
is it just me. most unusually i feel like i've wandered in lost, from MN.

Presumably "Carrie" had not established herself professionally under her maiden name and was keen to establish herself as Mrs Johnson. That title gave her a status which she did not previously have.

Both my daughter and I carry the title Doctor because of having studied for our doctorates at university. She had a terrible time explaining to her husband that she would be Mrs on their wedding day but at work she would be Dr + her maiden name because that is what is on her certificate and how she has always been known since gaining her doctorate. If I ever remarried I would have the same situation. There are many women in this position, Angela Merkel is known by her 1st husband's surname not by the name of her present husband, she had made her name in politics under the name Merkel. Yet Carrie took the name Johnson even before the ink was dry and styles herself Mrs Johnson.

We were forbidden to call women teachers "Miss".
It had to be Madam.

Catherine with a "C"

Meghan with an "H"

4allweknow

Shoud be Catherine/Megan Countess of ...... Quite a mouthful other than when being written. Media easier to identify which by using actual names. Sure if either women objected media would be told by the official parties. As to loss of Mrs/Miss females have driven this not wanting to be identified as married or not. Not too long until any kind of identification eg male or female will be lost too, we will be a them, they or it!

no, Megan's title is Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Sussex
and Kate (Katherine not Catherine), her title is Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Cambridge.

I believe that the title with the given name first is used by wives who have divorced (or been divorced by) their husbands and not remarried.

Agree with you Shelflife. I believe 'Madamoiselle' has not been used in France for quite some years now.

FannyCornforth

I've kept my maiden name.
I like it, and dislike MrC's.
If it were the other way around, I would have changed it.
Shallow, I know!

Not shallow at all.
I was truly fed up of the constant misspelling of my maiden name so happily accepted my DH’s, only to find that it was equally prone to misspellings or even conversion to something with only a tenuous resemblance to the proper word.

Perhaps in the past some divorced mothers retain their married surname to avoid having a different name to their children, although nowadays I don’t think it would matter. Personally, I do not know any divorced lady who has reverted to her maiden name.

I read recently that although Meghan was styled the Duchess of Sussex on Archie’s birth certificate, on Lili’s it was Meghan Markle.

I think I feel more strongly about the Duchess of Cambridge being referred to as Kate because the media alone use the diminutive

Ali08

Izabella,
Ms. refers to a woman who has been divorced, which it sounds like you may have, so that would be in fitting with you!
Unless you're currently married, in which case you'd legally be a Mrs. again.

Ms was introduced, and used, by women who didn't want to proclaim their marital, or single, status every time they had to give their names.

the opening post was so loaded with patriarchal assumptions, i did wonder if it was absolutely genuine, or deliberately goady.
has got a good catch of responses.
when i was at work and addressing a letter to an unknown person, i would begin, Dear Madam.
this was on principle, to counter-act all those Dear Sir letters.
also it was at least as likely to be a woman, more likely if an admin role.
some of the comments on here sound like we are in 1980s, or earlier. in my workplace since 1980s, Ms was always the default female title, for staff and others.
anyone tried Mx, which is similar but non gendered, ie a universal title. i now use it where the box must be filled in.

Looool yep, your dad ‘gives’ you away, you take your husbands name, complete loss of identity!

I insist on being called Ms as I’m divorced and depending what mood I’m in, could be my moms nam, or maiden name or married name!

Gosh, so many hell raisers even on Gransnet!

FannyCornforth

Surely no-one ever used the 'word' Mizz?
Especially in written form?

If you work in a primary school, you are always referred to as Miss, even if you are a man!

I'm sure that Galaxy can vouch for me!

when did this change ?
when i was at junior school, men teachers were always, sir.
but i agree all women teachers were, miss; even if name was mrs brown.
apparently it dates from when all teachers were Miss .... as they had to resign upon marriage.
think it was changed because of shortages during the war ?

FannyCornforth

The RF really couldn't do that double barrel thing.
It's just like a stage name, particularly in Meghan's case. I doubt if she uses her married name in professional circumstances.

I'm quite sure that Meghan would LOVE to flaunt her 'married name' for publicity purposes - anything at all that would 'increase the financial pulling power' .

When I got married my maiden name was 'put in a box and forgotten about' for want of a better way to put it!

That was your choice you didn’t have to Alio08

I prefer no title at all but if I have to then it’s Ms a fairly innocuous title that tells you nothing

I also hate the way that the press please themselves over how they use names. ‘Kate Middleton’, in particular, grates on me, and I think that it’s rude and insulting.

When I married, in 1963, it was the accepted thing to take your husband’s surname. It’s different now, and woman can choose whichever surname, and prefix, they choose.

One of my DD is married to a Peruvian. In Peru a child has a hyphenated surname. Mother’s, then father’s surname. My daughter chose to keep her simple English surname. Their daughter has just the first half of Dad’s surname. They all cope perfectly well.

I hate the term Ms. I am divorced so usually choose Mrs (some online forms make you put something in the first box) but prefer to not put a prefix and just be known by my first and last name.
I do wish I'd gone back to my maiden name once divorced but seemed like too much hassle - it will however be on my gravestone when I'm back with the rest of my family in the cemetery!

It is a popular misconception that Ms is used for divorced women. I have never thought of it this way until someone started this thread, or heard anyone else use it in this way. Surely it is just a neutral term, such as Mr/Rev/Dr ? where marital status is of no relevance whatsoever.

Surely taking your husbands surname went out with the Ark? I would have hoped women had come a long way since then! And why do they have to become Mrs? Men are always Mr so why should we change to Mrs? It stinks of ownership!

For many years now I have refused to use any personal title, just my given name and surname. This has been used through single, married and divorced periods. I refuse to be categorised!

My problem is not so much with the name as with having to denote marital status in this way.