What would you do?

FarNorth, there used to be a Social Worker involved up until January of this year, but she just put his behaviour down to his "inability to adjust to his new situation", even though he told her repeatedly that he was behaving this way because he wants to live with me not his Mother, because i understand his needs and have taken the time to learn how to interact with him on a level that he feels comfortable with and to which he responds positively.
Before they moved him to his other Grandmother's house i tried to tell them that this would happen, but they wouldn't believe me, then 7 months ago, just before they closed the case, the Social Worker actually admitted that she had made a mistake in moving him to his other Grandmother's house and apologized for disbelieving me, but she said that there was nothing she could do about it now, unless the Mother physically harms him, because they can't move him back here without "just cause", but considering that it has now been 14 months since he left here and his behaviour is continuing to deteriorate, i would have thought that they already have "just cause" to move him back here as he has repeatedly requested them to do.

hybrid1000 that is a terrible situation for the little boy, and for you.
Is there any social worker or health worker involved, who can explain to his relatives how to interact with him?
It's clear that his life is much more difficult than it needs to be, and peeing in the garden is just a result of that.

ValerieF

Well hold on MOnica. We only have one side of it here!

Reading between lines sounds like the OP is angry she hasn’t got custody? For the reason you assume, that she is the only one with the child’s best interests?

I also have one child with autism and I don’t think I would make a huge hoo-haa about him at 5 peeing in the garden. In fact my others who are not autistic would have done same lol.

Father seems to be more of the problem. Felt uncomfortable when op said he thought he would be getting a “normal” child. What exactly is “normal”? An autistic child might need to be approached slightly differently to what the father is familiar with but it is “normal” in the child’s life.

I would forget about scoring points with the mother, encourage your child to go to the bathroom but not freak out if he pees in the rose bush. As you say at school he will realise it isn’t done outside.

Think dad just has to understand a little bit more. For example - direct instructions only- an autistic child needs firm instructions eg no good saying “don’t put your feet on the coffee table”. You need to say “put your feet in the floor”. Just an example of how an autistic brain thinks.

Your son would be hugely enlightened if he enrolled on an autism course.

Good luck but am sure your grandson will come on in leaps and bounds once he is understood.

ValerieF, No i'm not angry that I didn't get Custody, I'm upset because my GS's Father won't accept this very Unique little man for who he is, that his Mother accepts that he is Autistic but won't enforce the routines that he responds well to and also won't do a course that would help her to respond better to his needs, that his Maternal Grandmother also doesn't accept that he is Autistic and that he needs clear boundaries, routines and instructions, she sees him as just a very naughty boy who won't do as he's told, and can't see that he is doing as he's told but because the instuctions he is being given are not clear to him he doesn't do things exactly as she expects him to do them so then she thinks he is deliberately disobeying her, so then she shouts at him and calls him a naughty boy, and that every time my GS comes to see me he asks "When can i come home and live with you?" and then gets upset when I tell him that he has to live with his Mother and Maternal Grandmother.
I am not trying to "Score Points with the Mother", I just want what's best for my GS, when he lived with me he had clear boundaries, routines, and instuctions, he was well behaved and rarely acted up, but since moving in with his Maternal Grandmother where he has no boundaries, routines, etc., he constantly punches, kicks, bites, and attacks his Mother and Grandmother, has regular "Meltdowns", and is nearly always angry and upset, but when he is with me he is the calm, happy, loving, well behaved boy that he used to be when he lived here.

he only seems to forget when he is stressed, such as when Daddy has been shouting at either him, me, or his Mum.

It sounds like Dad does far too much shouting.
Autism, or not, this will be upsetting for the child.

There are hi-tech companies who ask for autistic people to work for them as they have brains which think and reason differently. I believe GCHQ does too. Perhaps if the father was told this he may be more likely to accept that the stigma associated with autism is fast dying.

No you can’t but in OP initial post she was saying the mother and grandmother were lax and that her and her son were more disciplined so without knowing more about the child or his condition (varying degrees) it is hard to make a judgement. From what she says I wouldn’t be worried about a 5 year old peeing outside but I would be worried about the attitude of a father who doesn’t understand or worse refuses to accept. Which is why I said we don’t know IF the only person who has the child’s best interest at heart is the OP. Could be his mother and maternal grandma understand more? We just don’t know. All am saying.

Valerie read the OP's posts. She has tried to get the father to 'understand a little bit more' and do a course on autism, without success.

perhaps you could explain to her how to get someone unwilling to do these things to change their mind.

Well hold on MOnica. We only have one side of it here!

Reading between lines sounds like the OP is angry she hasn’t got custody? For the reason you assume, that she is the only one with the child’s best interests?

I also have one child with autism and I don’t think I would make a huge hoo-haa about him at 5 peeing in the garden. In fact my others who are not autistic would have done same lol.

Father seems to be more of the problem. Felt uncomfortable when op said he thought he would be getting a “normal” child. What exactly is “normal”? An autistic child might need to be approached slightly differently to what the father is familiar with but it is “normal” in the child’s life.

I would forget about scoring points with the mother, encourage your child to go to the bathroom but not freak out if he pees in the rose bush. As you say at school he will realise it isn’t done outside.

Think dad just has to understand a little bit more. For example - direct instructions only- an autistic child needs firm instructions eg no good saying “don’t put your feet on the coffee table”. You need to say “put your feet in the floor”. Just an example of how an autistic brain thinks.

Your son would be hugely enlightened if he enrolled on an autism course.

Good luck but am sure your grandson will come on in leaps and bounds once he is understood.

Now I've read that the father has, on a couple of occasions, shouted at the boy's mother, I can see that the boy has probably behaved in that way because he was upset by the shouting.

hybrid1000 What a situation to be in. it is so clear that you are the only one with your grandson's best interest's at heart. yet parents will get precedence, even though what they are doing is not good for their child.

M0nica

Your son is, as they say, in denial. Pretending his son is not autistic is not going to make it go away and what he is doing now could almost be described as child abuse, not allowing a child with a disability to have the opportunity for an education and access to facilities that will enable him to develop to the fullness of his capacity. If you haven't yet made these point s to him. perhaps you should, forcefully.

What you say of your grandson, gives the impression of an autistic child who would be capable, with proper parenting and education, to eventually make his way in the world on his own or with minimal support. it would appear that the behaviour of both parents is putting this at risk.

I totally agree M0nica, and I have tried getting these points across to my Son, but he won't listen to me.
And yes, both Parents are putting him at risk, my GS was, until recently, on the Child Protection Register, and then under Social Services as a Child In Need, and he kept telling the Social Worker that he wants to come back and live with me, because I understand his complex needs, he responds to me in a way that neither of his Parents are capable of getting him to do because neither of them fully understand his needs, but instead of listening to my GS they simply said he had to live with his Mum and Maternal Grandmother and then they closed the case.

Namsnanny, I think the reason that my Son is so against educating himself on Autism is because he is in denial, because when he found out that he was going to be a Dad he envisioned having a "Normal, Intelligent Child", (His words, not mine), and he sees Autism as some sort of "Imperfection", we have tried to educate him to the fact that Autism does NOT mean Stupid, and that just because his Son is Autistic does not mean he can't achieve whatever he puts his mind to when he grows up.
My GS's Autism is caused by a Chromosome Deletion, passed on to him through his Mother, and his Mother has Learning Disabilities as a result of her Chromosome Deletion, so my son thinks that the problems we are seeing with my GS are due to the Mother's Learning Difficulties not because of his Autism, and that these problems can therefore be "solved" by what he calls "Proper Parenting".
I think this is also compounded by the fact that my Son was recently told that he also has Learning Difficulties so he wants my GS to be "better than him".
My Son just doesn't seem to be able to see that his Son is a Bright, Happy, Intelligent little Boy who just wants his Dad to love him for who he is, like the rest of the Family do.

Your grandson is autistic and needs careful and understanding care. He may have mixed messages and is confused. If his father continues to disregard his sons condition then I fear things may get worse. I understand the father does not want to acknowledge his sons situation but but he does need some education and understanding so he can process what is happening. If that happens then that he will be in a strong position to support his son , recognize what autism entails and help his son develop and grow into a confident young man . I wish them well.

Your son is, as they say, in denial. Pretending his son is not autistic is not going to make it go away and what he is doing now could almost be described as child abuse, not allowing a child with a disability to have the opportunity for an education and access to facilities that will enable him to develop to the fullness of his capacity. If you haven't yet made these point s to him. perhaps you should, forcefully.

What you say of your grandson, gives the impression of an autistic child who would be capable, with proper parenting and education, to eventually make his way in the world on his own or with minimal support. it would appear that the behaviour of both parents is putting this at risk.

Your GS sounds very bright hybred1000

Knocking the keys down shows to what lengths he is prepared to go to make his point.
I think he needs more input by his Dad.
Do you know why your son is against educating himself about autism?

Purplestar, the door was locked, and i had put the keys where i thought he wouldn't be able to reach them, but he had managed to knock the keys off the peg using a broom handle and had let himself out.

Yes, Franbern, you are right, his Father refuses to accept that his Son is Autistic, or that Autistic Children's minds work differently to other children, I have suggested to him many times that some sort of course would be appropriate so that he can learn more about how to treat an Autistic Child, but he won't do it.
I know that during the 4 years that my Grandson was living with me he responded really well to a strict structured routine where everything was explained to him clearly and he was never naughty unless anyone started shouting at me or his Mum, but he no longer has this routine, instead of explaining why he needs to do something his Mum just says "You need to do it because i said so", which really just doesn't work for him.

I would speak to my son for a start!

He gets angry with DGS and at least twice has been shouting at the child's mother.

No wonder the poor boy is peeing here and there.

Please keep the front door locked when GS is with you.Autistic children have a no "danger" issue.You're lucky he didn't wander off. I have an Autistic Neice,she was able to go out of an unlocked front door,crossed a main road and kept on walking,not while in my care I Will add! Can't bare to think of what could happen.
You should have a Frank discussion with the parents and reenforce the rules at your house.Autistic children need boundaries,routine and alot of it is "learned" behaviour.He may be getting mixed messages and not realising in general,people dont widdle outside unless there no other choice.

Most autistic youngsters are usually extremely keen to obey rules, absolutely. So, if the rule is that you use a toilet for a pee, then that will be whast happens. Dothink that Lola has hit the nail on the head with giving this young child choices he is not able to make.
Does his father understand that autism can seriously effect the behavior of his son. Perhaps it would be a good idea for Dad to arrangeto do an on-line training course regarding autism. Sounds like HE needs more correction than the little boy.

Thanks Lolo81, Yes, I never get angry with him for it, but unfortunately his Dad does, and has gone as far as calling him a Baby because "Only Babies Pee outside, Big Boys hold their Pee and use a Toilet", I will try the constant reminders, because he only seems to forget when he is stressed, such as when Daddy has been shouting at either him, me, or his Mum.

I can only comment based on my own experience with my Nephew who is also on the spectrum. My DN could not (at that age) process complex information such as “you can do this if xyz is present but not if abc are”.
So in the scenario above if we told my DN you can only pee outside if there isn’t a toilet available, at that age his wee brain would only absorb the first part of the instruction without the condition, so he’d absorb you can pee outside.

The conflicting boundaries for this child will be problematic, if there is no consistency then no wonder he doesn’t know what’s acceptable: that would be tough for any child, never mind a child who is neurodivergent.

My advice to you OP would be to regularly remind GS remember to use the bathroom upstairs/inside/wherever similarly to how you would have when he was potty training. Also not to respond with anger or frustration (not that you’ve said you do, but I understand how trying it can be at times no matter how much you love them!). Using a calm patient tone and a simple sentence structure will hopefully parallel the way his teachers are communicating with him and might make it a bit easier to get instructions to stick with him.

I had already gone home, and his Dad had stayed a little longer as there was something he wanted to discuss with my Grandson's Mother, which turned into an argument with Dad shouting at Mum, and during that argument my Grandson Pee'd on the wall.

Slightly confused about who was where when the shouting happened.
You could be right, though.