Retirement Dilemma

I have to say Jaye your point about spontaneity and planning ahead for socialising is down to Covid rather than it being the usual way of life in the UK - I think you would find the same restrictions on your life in many, many countries at the moment. Mixing has been limited (and of course stopped during lockdowns), by this wretched pandemic, too, so I think it’s rather unfair to say people don’t mix in the same way as ex pats do, although I appreciate that ex pats probably form their own bubbles and groups as a form of community in a foreign country. Once living back here, it’s up to the individuals to engage with their new home - join groups, make friends (we will be able to do these things again, honestly).
I feel quite saddened that the whole of this country of ours is being blanket labelled as unfriendly, fascist, racist, etc, etc, based on what is reported in some of the more, shall we say, sensationalist media. Certainly the UK is not perfect, but where is? Every country has something that an individual would not like, and to be honest, there are plenty of countries that are far higher up my list of places to avoid living in than the UK.

KatharineStJB

My son and his wife and their two large cats live 200 miles away. They are having extensive renovation work done to their house and have been advised by the architect to move out for three months (they both have asthma). They had planned to take a short-term let but can’t find one where cats are allowed and they don’t want the cats to be in a cattery for such a long time. They have just asked if they and the cats can come and stay with us for the three months (from mid August). We have a big house and feel we must say yes but I do feel a bit daunted and would welcome advice about any ground rules e.g. around private space and cooking arrangements??

You need to start your own thread?

KatharineStJB

My son and his wife and their two large cats live 200 miles away. They are having extensive renovation work done to their house and have been advised by the architect to move out for three months (they both have asthma). They had planned to take a short-term let but can’t find one where cats are allowed and they don’t want the cats to be in a cattery for such a long time. They have just asked if they and the cats can come and stay with us for the three months (from mid August). We have a big house and feel we must say yes but I do feel a bit daunted and would welcome advice about any ground rules e.g. around private space and cooking arrangements??

from the sounds of it they should have thought of these issues sooner, them being so rich n all!

I am focusing on you, not your children, in this response. Research indicates that people are very bad at judging what their lives will be like in the future, in particular, beyond 15 years. I beg you to consider what would happen if one (or both) of you was diagnosed with disease common in people 70+: Parkinson's, cancer, dementia, heart disease, stroke. How would treatment and care be paid for, what social care is available, what social support is there, what about care homes? I heard a programme about the work of an English chaplain working on the Costa del Sol. She went from one pitiful case to another of elderly British ex-pats trapped in flats, with no way of even getting shopping or medications and with no prospect of getting the nursing care they needed. In your mid-50s, you may be hale and hearty, but unless you suddenly drop off your twig (leaving the other), you will need to consider how your needs, physical and social, will be met. Once you are infirm, or widowed, selling your house in Spain will be a nightmare. If you are very comfortably off, you may be able to afford medical and social care insurance, but if not, you should think carefully before settling elsewhere. Do you know if you are entitled to NHS and social care? This will also need researching. My school friend has lived in Australia for almost 50 years and wants to come back, but he will have to have medical and social care insurance. Good luck with your choice, but don't imagine you can, by dint of will, escape the usual consequences of age. Consider the worst, make suitable arrangements in case it should happen, then hope for the best and enjoy life knowing that you will be looked after if you need it.

i always fail to understand why retirees always think that their lives ar not their own? DD/DS/DG whatevers, theyll make their own way in life with scant thought for how the parents are going to cope! that's why they move away/abroad/out! so many parents get suckered into thinking that it's actually their responsibility to provide [FOC] babysitting/accomodation/holiday homes/childminding/somewhere to crash!! it's not! trust me, live your life as if you were single unfettered by the constraints of kids/work/mortgages/debts,-why? because YOU ARE! never let your DC dictate where you live / what size home you live in etc etc do they ever ask you about these decisions THEY make? and do you think for one millisecond they worry how easy or convenient you will find it to be able to come stay with them? [unless they want FOC services]? you've worked darned hard all your adult lives probably. kick back and for once do what YOU want to do!!! they will have to accomodate your circs. for a change! good luck, you'll need it.

The danger of moving back to your home country is
- the relocation place has changed - getting bigger or smaller in population, more or less diverse culture wise, the services offered may have changed
- the governmental system - how has it changed? Become less or more complicated? After years of living abroad, it may feel to learn to navigate a brand new maze
- the expectations about retirement - choosing a place is based on a certain number of benefits and what would happen if you do not get it
For example - I pick city A because it is close to one of my kids but the frequency of visits is not as often as I would like
- the most important one- you as a person have changed. You have matured, grown, exposed to new cultures and mentalities, discovered and adopted new customs.
The person who left the UK is very different than the person coming back.

Suggestion return and live in the UK as your main base and to be near to your daughter plus buy a property in Spain so you can invite your son and his family there in the summertime. Remember you can spend a certain amount of time living in Spain or perhaps Portugal without incurring tax. Good luck

Someone once said to me that it’s not where you live, it’s who you live near that counts, l have always found this to be true.

Grannygrumps where did you get your information about pensions not being paid to people living abroad ?

I spend most of my time in France, where I have residency, and the rest in the UK. As others have mentioned, Brexit has proved a nightmare. It is essential that you have at least residency (citizenship would be better, but personally cannot face the bureaucracy involved), you also need a health insurance card (don't know system in Spain), otherwise you will be looking at huge charges for even the most basic medical care (you may have this already). We have also had to change th e registration on our car. We are currently allowed a UK bank account here, although I believe that may change. You may have sorted all this already but, if not, it is a fairly challenging, and expensive task. When I am in France I miss my family enormously and, of course, they have not been able to visit at all during the pandemie. However, I think it is useful to think about how it will be in a few years when GC are grown (I don't necessarily manage this detachment myself!), and also how it will be if your partner predeceases you. Do you speak enough Spanish to not be isolated? Do you have Spanish friends who can help you negotiate medical/social/legal issues if required. We live in a very remote (and therefore cheap) part of France and have a small modest flat in UK, so can manage both. The wheels, for the moment, remain on the bus, though am braced for future wobbles. Even though I have lived for years in France, and speak fluent French and have many friends here, not sure I would like to be old, alone and frail here. Best of luck with your deliberating, and hope you make the right choice for you.

A very difficult decision, one we had to make 3 years ago, we are back in the UK and agonise every day as to whether we should move abroad again, but now 69 and 74.
We hardly see the grand children, they or their parents are all so busy and tied up in their own lives, we saw more of them with quality time when we were living abroad!
I hate to say it but UK is not what we imagined it to be, apart from the awful weather, it has been very disappointing and people here have a very different way of life and don't want to hear about the great times we had living abroad! I don't blame them. There is no spontaneity, socialising has to be planned way ahead and people don't mix the same way as expats do on.
Please think long and hard and try it out at your house for a while before committing and I wish you "bon courage" wherever you end up.

It’s quite a lot to consider. My mantra has always been, do what is best for today, because tomorrow, things may change. Health for example, so people can’t travel.
Money difficulties.
Fall outs.
Don’t want to sound pessimistic, but I would always avoid doing anything which depends on someone else being involved. Do it for you, and your children can work round you.
All the best

Returned from 12 years in France in 2014. Decided to live between son and daughter. Son promptly went to live in Singapore. Chose somewhere we liked (Bristol) and very happy with decision to return. Have to work at making new friends . Good Luck

I'm really sorry to have to say this, but I think you'd be foolish beyond measure to return to the UK. I'm not going to hijack your thread into a political arena, but quite frankly, the UK you'd be returning to is broken. It's deeply divided; it's the laughing stock of Europe; it's becoming more fascist every day with people's rights and freedoms being drastically curtailed (though a lot of people seem to blinkered against that fact!) and the NHS is being systematically destroyed piece by little piece. You'd be FAR better living somewhere where both your children and your grandchildren could come to visit you. Just my opinion, of course, you have a lot of pro's and con's to consider.

I have followed this with great interest, mainly because it is so far from my personal experience, yet known to me through so many friends and acquaintance. And yes, I completely agree about the pitfalls of 'the exile's dream'.

I think it worthwhile keeping options open as far as possible for as long as possible. As you find yourself leaning one way or another, go with it, think about how you would make that option work.

Finally, once decided, you dig in and make it work. I often think the outcome depends not on the quality of the decision, but the effort put in to making it work. I am sure that people who have lived around the world must have a good understanding of how to tackle that.

Can I also point out, not to OP who has obviously considered this, but others, that healthcare is expensive in the UK. It's just that our taxes pay for those of us who are covered by the NHS, so that it is free at the point of need.

I would suggest do not make decisions based entirely on your children's whereabouts/careers. Do you like Spain and want to live there family not withstanding? You have obviously done your homework regarding EU etc so nuff said.

Our own situation was that we moved to SW France in 2005 when my two children had spouses, their own homes and careers on track. Before grandchildren as that would have made the decision more difficult!

We have made a fabulous property here and the family came more often before the grandchildren arrived, after that it was more difficult because of the expenses were much more than before. However I have always gone back to England every three to four months before Covid happened.

In the days before a decent motorway system my first husband and I lived a long way from both sets of parents. this meant that when they came to us or we to them time was set aside for the family. This meant quality time. I lived near my children in England and we saw each other for lunch maybe once a month for a couple of hours. I knew from experience that actually staying together for a few days was far more satisfying.

When the grandchildren arrived on my trips to England I was then embedded with the families to do my share of childminding when they were little during school holidays etc while the parents worked. This was wonderful - days with my grandchildren all to myself and evenings with the parents. Then back to my fabulous life in France. Much better than living down the road and doing a regular few days a week every week.

As they have grown up, as others have mentioned, they start to make their own lives, don't want to 'play' with grandma all the time, they want their friends around during holidays and half terms. And again two weeks here would not be so alluring now they are all entering their teens. I have noticed that when I stay with them a lot of the time I am sitting around finding something to do while they get on with their lives, which is as it should be. They all love me lots and are very glad to see me, but that is short lived! I don't have a problem with that. It just means that when I am there I will spend more time with my friends and visiting art galleries again. I have wonderful memories of those weeks I spent with them as young children and the smile on their faces and shriek of 'Grandma' as I pick them up from school.

It is very important to have your own separate life, especially after being expats. As to living back in England, I would not want to do that, many of us here consider that England has lost it's moral compass, even before this current charade of a government. The Europeans are feeling really sorry for us, UK is the laughing stock, and you don't realise it until you are out of it.

I am sure one day in the future when we are in our dottage we will have to go back to some basic life in a retirement complex in order not to be a drain on my children, but we will say that it's OK because we will have had our life.

OP if you are in your 50s you have years and years of active life ahead of you. So do what is best for you, whatever you choose regarding your family there will be many, many hours, months, years when they will not be around and that time has to be filled to the brim with good things for you. This does not have to be your final move, that can come when you are in your late 70s and 80s!!

There are many of us here in this area of France that are retired with children in the UK, I get so cross when some children persuade their still active and not so old parents persuade them to go back. To my mind it is entirely selfish so they don't have to worry about them being abroad. So what happens when parents do go back for the sake of their children when they are still coping wonderfully? Their children still have their own lives and careers, grandchildren grown up and visit in passing. In fact the parents would have had a better support group where they were living abroad. The parents then have to make a life for themselves back in UK when they probably had had a great life, perhaps for many years, where they were established before. So mean. I also find it really insulting that children who have been brought up by these parents think they know best.

Think to have two properties is best then you have best of both worlds for all family to enjoy throughout the year Visio you or the family home I works for us life’s to short enjoy wherever you end up just don’t favour one daughter or son always will cause problems

Keep your house in the UK. When you are over 80 you will probably value the NHS so keep your residency and your full state pension. Then look at a home some were warm but not too hot where family will come. If it is not large if it is near some holiday rental properties you will be fine. You don't have to run a swimming pool then and they get a choice of amenities.

i would say that you can read ,gain other people's advice, read until you are bored,but only you can make the decision.Some people need to be nearer family/friends, some don't, some want to live in a warm climate, some don't etc. If i have big decision then a pros and cons list and scale each point from a scale 1 to 5,
i find this helps.Some say go with your gut feeling.I think with retirement we need a purpose and being near people who care for us. i can also think of often used quotes, 'the grass is greener(but needs watering)' 'wherever you go, there you are.'

My son and his wife and their two large cats live 200 miles away. They are having extensive renovation work done to their house and have been advised by the architect to move out for three months (they both have asthma). They had planned to take a short-term let but can’t find one where cats are allowed and they don’t want the cats to be in a cattery for such a long time. They have just asked if they and the cats can come and stay with us for the three months (from mid August). We have a big house and feel we must say yes but I do feel a bit daunted and would welcome advice about any ground rules e.g. around private space and cooking arrangements??

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

My advice would be to buy a place in Spain as its a lovely lifestyle and the sunshine, outdoor lifestyle and relaxed way of life is better for your health but obviously because of Brexit I don't think you would be able to live in Spain or any other EU country for any more than 90 days a year I think as you are a Uk citizen, even if you do buy a property over there and you would not get free health care etc . I lived abroad in different countries including Tokyo , Japan for three years but came back to the UK 9 years ago. I wish I hadn't but then I still work and don't own a house. The UK is ok if you own a property and can live in a nice expensive area and have a very good pension pot and can get away on holiday alot abroad but otherwise it can be a grim place for pensioners because of the awful weather at least 6 months a year and as you say you may not fit in if you have travelled and lived abroad for many years because many in the UK are quite narrow minded! Thats just my opinion but my advice would be move and retire to somewhere with a warm climate and relaxed lifestyle!

Think about the accommodation, weather and locality character/facilities you both want. Other considerations come after. You cannot depend on things relatives may do.

Your husband's concern is a valid one, and one I feel able to comment upon.

After years abroad, you will find it difficult to "fit in" in your native country.

My mother left Denmark upon her marriage to my father in 1947. For years everything in the UK was marvellous, much better than Denmark according to my mother.

Then when I was about nine, she changed her tune, becoming more and more dissatisfied with the UK and homesick for Denmark.

As both my sister and I chose to settle in Denmark, my parents retired to this country in 1980.

My mother was over the moon with joy at the prospect of lving in "her " country again.

THEN she started to discover that the country she remember from 1947 had changed just as much over the years as the UK had.

Suddenly there were lots of things that displeased her and even more that she missed from her years in Scotland. For most of the rest of her life, she irritated my sister and me with her constant criticism of the way things are here and totally refused to understand things like Income tax here, and why she had to pay it - even although she was receiving a small state pension here over and above her British one.

I am not saying you and your husband will feel the same, but you might.

I would hesitate very much to chose to live near one of my adult children in preference to the other. Surely by chosing to do so you are telling the one you are not geographically near to that he is less important than his sister?

Whether you post-Brexit can stay where you are is another matter. You do not say you are in the EU - that is an assumption those reading your post are making.

I am sure you have already considered whether Brexit is going to affect you or not, or to what extent it affects you.

After all unless you have both worked for the British government or a British firm in your years abroad, you probably don't qualify for pensions from the UK.

The point made about grandchildren growing up and not wanting to spend holidays with their grandparents is a valid one, so is the point of old age and widowhood abroad.

If you do remain where you are or outside the UK, or own property in two places, do please make sure that your wills are valid in both countries - otherwise you can leave both the survivor of you two and your children a nice legal mess to clear up!

My parents needed quite a lot of help from a firm of international lawyers to ensure the validity of their wills in both countries.

There have been a number of very good point raised already. To throw in my 5 pennyworth, I agree you need to think what is best for you and your husband first. However then do some 'what if..' worst case scenario thinking. My fit, energetic brother had a heart attack last year which brought home to us all the speed with which life as a couple might change. Fortunately he recovered but other friends of similar ages have not been so fortunate. We live in France and I can find it difficult to know how much to tell my husband's children about his health challenges (both mental and physical). Sadly age does take its toll and present one with a wide range of challenges. Where do you want to be and what is important to you when that period of your life arrives? We are thinking of eventually returning to UK and then renting a place abroad in the summer months for those who wish to join us! One challenge for us will be avoiding proBrexit areas - I don't fancy the debates in the pub!