Retirement Dilemma

Just a couple of thoughts - the weather isn’t dreary here in the South East. We are off on hols at the end of the week and the long range forecast for the New Forest is wall to wall sunshine. ?

Our friends moved to Spain, about 10 years ago, my concern is what will happen when one of them dies.

NannaRose if you are in receipt of A U.K. normal Old Age pension you obtain an S1 which entitles you to join the French Health Service and U.K. pays France for you. You obtain your EHIC card from the U.K. too. You can choose to have any treatment in the U.K. or you can have it in France.
This may well be a bilateral agreement between the two countries.
There is also an agreement between the two countries about income tax (Double Taxation Treaty Agreement) and if you fill in the appropriate forms you are sure of only paying income tax on your income once - we have a Govt pension which is taxed in U.K. at source - this is declared in France but not taxed and our normal pensions which are taxed in France along with interest etc but they are not taxed in U.K.

If you’re only in your fifties thats hardly old age. You’ve got years of adventure ahead yet. Rent out your uk house if you need the income and rent (dont buy) in Spain or wherever.

Dinahmo

theworriedwell This was an agreement between father and daughter. It was he who said that it would be quicker by plane. I doubt whether she had a car since they were on canal barge, moving about. I believe you can get from France, across Holland and into Germany on the canal system.

I don't know where you live and I guess in some parts of the country you could do 200 miles in 3 hours. However, if you live on one side of London and need to get to the other side it can take much longer. And you can sit for hours without moving on the M25 so that doesn't help.

The actual flight might be quicker than driving but I don't believe the whole organising, booking, getting to and from airport would be quicker. It is probably a comforting thing to say but it really isn't realistic unless you might be going from Lands End to John O'Groats but I just checked that and apparently you can do that in 13 hrs, I don't suppose they have included toilet and food breaks in that.

You can definitely wait hours for a plane not to mention getting to the airport an hour or two before take off. As I say it might be a comforting thing to say but I don't believe it is true.

BlueSky

Well said Mumofmadboys! Don’t forget the possibility of one of you being left. I don’t want to sound negative but it’s different living abroad with your partner or on your own. Good luck Nansnet!

BlueSky I'm totally aware of that. It's not just a possibility, it's an actual fact that, one day, one of us will be left on our own, and that's what I worry about! Wherever we end up, one of us is going to be left alone. We may end up in Spain, with several friends, or back in the UK with our DD not too far away, but she me be busy with her own life. We have lots to consider ...

For anyone that's interested Which has a good guide to catching up on State pension contributions. I found it online.

theworriedwell This was an agreement between father and daughter. It was he who said that it would be quicker by plane. I doubt whether she had a car since they were on canal barge, moving about. I believe you can get from France, across Holland and into Germany on the canal system.

I don't know where you live and I guess in some parts of the country you could do 200 miles in 3 hours. However, if you live on one side of London and need to get to the other side it can take much longer. And you can sit for hours without moving on the M25 so that doesn't help.

I've worked mostly overseas for 9 years now but have returned to the UK because I think the long term effect of Covid will be less easy/cheap access to travel. That would affect my decision making, if I were you.

Well said Mumofmadboys! Don’t forget the possibility of one of you being left. I don’t want to sound negative but it’s different living abroad with your partner or on your own. Good luck Nansnet!

annifrance

There's an awful lot of talk about expat communities as if they never mix with the nationals, or other nationalities. What's the point of living abroad if you don't make a massive effort to integrate.

We have friends that are English and French, for the most part prefer to be with French. We have other friends of other nationalities. In fact we go to great lengths not to mix with British ex pat cliques! At one of our BBQs we had French, Spanish, Dutch, Polish, Romanian and Irish. Part of the joy of living abroad and so much more interesting.

annifrance, I couldn't agree more! Having been expats since the mid 90s, we have friends from UK, France, Argentina, Germany, Spain, Italy, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Philippines, India, Australia, New Zealand, etc. I guess some people's perceptions of British expats are that we all just congregate together in our own little communities, like expat retirees in/around Benidorm/Marbella. When, in reality, the majority of us are far more adventurous, and like to integrate with the locals, and those from elsewhere.

Dinahmo

About 20 years ago I knew an elderly gentleman whose only daughter, together with her OH had bought a barge on which they were traveling the European canals. He was well into his 80s, a widower but feisty for his age. His only GC lived in Australia. He had no problem with her moving to mainland Europe because, as he and she said, she could get to him more quickly by plane than she could be driving. This was pre covid of course.

Well if she had a plane standing by but for most of us it would involve booking a flight which could be hours or days away, travelling to the airport before the flight for check in and then travelling when you get off the plane. Where would she be driving from and to for it to take longer than that?

Obviously she is entitled to move abroad but the sound bite doesn't make sense to me. One of my siblings was sitting on a plane when my mother died. They got here as fast as they could but it wasn't fast enough. I did a 200 mile drive and had time with her before she died.

I have GC round the corner and GC 200 miles away. I love them all, the ones who lives 200 miles away come and stay but there is no denying the relationship is different. The ones who can just decide to stop off after school, decide to stay and have dinner etc feel almost like my children and the others feel like GC,

I broke my ankle on Tuesday, one GC has just arrived and is making me tea and decided if they should cut the grass today or tomorrow. In this sort of situation having them close is priceless. Similarly when they have an accident or feel ill at school it is me that gets the phone call to pick them up as parents are working.

I can see the attraction of the big house in Spain but I wouldn't change my relationship with the local GC for the world.

Welshwife - I am not sure what you mean by 'if you are a UK pensioner you are allowed access to NHS treatment all the time'.
If you mean whilst living abroad, then that varies with reciprocal agreements in different countries. If you mean in the UK, then I understand that people not normally resident here are only entitled if they are covered under reciprocal agreements, or if they fall into certain categories. I think these are things like people receiving war pensions from the UK government, or who were paying into the UK system because they were employees of the FCO, British Council etc.

Someone may be along who knows more, but I think that just receiving a UK pension doesn't entitle someone resident abroad to return for treatment.
Happy to be corrected, but as folk get information from here, I wanted to flag it up.

There's an awful lot of talk about expat communities as if they never mix with the nationals, or other nationalities. What's the point of living abroad if you don't make a massive effort to integrate.

We have friends that are English and French, for the most part prefer to be with French. We have other friends of other nationalities. In fact we go to great lengths not to mix with British ex pat cliques! At one of our BBQs we had French, Spanish, Dutch, Polish, Romanian and Irish. Part of the joy of living abroad and so much more interesting.

About 20 years ago I knew an elderly gentleman whose only daughter, together with her OH had bought a barge on which they were traveling the European canals. He was well into his 80s, a widower but feisty for his age. His only GC lived in Australia. He had no problem with her moving to mainland Europe because, as he and she said, she could get to him more quickly by plane than she could be driving. This was pre covid of course.

After many years working abroad, we retired and decided to move to France. We left 2 daughters in the UK, one in Aberdeen with 2 children and the other in the NE of England. After 3 years and second daughter emigrated to Australia and has since married and had 3 children. Both have visited us in France and likewise, we have visited them. We are very happy with our choice, but it all boils down to what you want to do. We have been here 17 years and still love the lifestyle and the weather.

Wow! I wasn't expecting quite so many responses, but thank you all! It's very interesting, and helpful, to read other people's different views, and suggestions, based on various circumstances.

Many of the scenarios mentioned have already been swirling around in my head (mostly at night, when I'm in bed!). But a lot of what's been said really has helped me to put some things into perspective. I do realise that we need to decide what's going to be important to us, and make us happy during retirement, rather than putting other people's wishes first.

It's impossible to plan for every eventuality, but as long as we are aware what could potentially happen in the future, and discuss what we would do in the worst case scenario, then I think we need to do whatever is going to make us both happy at the time we retire, and not worry too much, yet, about what may happen in the future. Yes, one of us could become ill/pass away, soon after making the move, leaving the other to cope alone. This is something we have had to consider for many years as expats. But, we could also potentially have 10, 20, 30 good years ahead of us! Who knows?!

Whatever we decide, we have to hope it's the right decision, but if it turns out to be the wrong one, although it would be a real hassle, I guess we could always move again!

As the saying goes, 'live for today, because tomorrow is never promised' ...

Cheers geekesse.

PS - the older grandchildren have started having their own families so little ones to cuddle again!

We are full time in France at the moment but while we had a number of friends for many years who were about a similar age etc they are no longer here - some have died but others have moved to either the U.K. - one to a nursing home or back to their native country. We live very much in the sticks and have no neighbours near enough to walk to easily. Over the last six or so years we have both been very ill but luckily recovered. The French health system is wonderful and when I was diagnosed with cancer my treatment started very quickly. Although we are fully in the health service here ( paid for by the NHS - but that may change with Brexit) and also have a top up mutuelle - the health service here is only 70% of the cost - serious ailments such as cancer or heart problems are covered 100% by the state. I had a two hour journey to go to my chemo sessions and a taxi ambulance was provided.
However we are now talking about returning to U.K. as we are both 80 and our children worry about us. In many ways both of us would like to remain here - some Brits have both their parents and their children living here and how I would love to be one of them. Both of us being so ill has given us a wake up call really.
For the OP I would certainly try being back in U.K. for a while - you have a base there already and you could have time to reflect on what you want to do.
If you are a U.K. pensioner you are allowed access to NHS treatment all the time so there would not be a problem. If you wish to add to your State pension payments which may be missing due to working abroad you can pay a certain number of years back and make class two payments going forward to increase any pension entitlement.
Not sure that we will buy a house back in U.K. because of hassle but would be able to pay rent from our pensions - still thinking about that part.

I would not like to be having to make your decision!
But I would just like to say I have been a very hands on grandma to my little grandson and it has been a most fulfilling and joyful experience. He's soon to be 6 and as someone else said he will probably tire of spending a lot of time with us grandparents as he gets older but I feel so privileged to have been able to spend these first years of his life so close to him. So if I were you I would maybe spend some time close to your existing grandchildren, maybe in rented property or somewhere that will be easy to sell in the future, and have holidays in the UK. Then if you do get grandchildren in the UK in the future up sticks and move back to the UK to spend time being close to the new grandchildren whilst they are small and go back to holiday with your other older grandchildren.
That way you can have time being close to all members of your family and get to be hands on grandparents for a lot of time.
Good luck trying to decide.

JillEH

Not about post (but wish you good luck) but about DD DIL etc: what do these mean? Cheers.

Scroll to the top of the page and click on the link for ‘acronyms’.

Not about post (but wish you good luck) but about DD DIL etc: what do these mean? Cheers.

I was concerned about that Dinahmo but GG hasn't come back.

We have been involved in the care of six elderly relatives, Mothers x2 , Fathers x 2, Step Mother and Step father. None of them acknowledged or prepared for their old age. I have no idea how they thought they would not end up old/ possibly incapable , but it comes to us all.
Their selfishness resulted in us, when we had 3 children and full time jobs, travelling hundreds of miles to garden, clean, arrange care, take them to hospital, respond to emergency calls, and eventually take on their paperwork. I once drove from the North at night, to the South to respond to my MIL suddenly being admitted to hospital.
When they eventually died ( we still have a 96 year old living) we were left to clear up the contents of houses and years of their collecting and hanging on to every button and bits of string for decades.
We ourselves are ageing and really the thought of clearing the last house up, fills me with dread. My FIL refused to discuss the future at all, when he could. He would not entertain us clearing the barns and chicken houses when we were fitter..( He is a ex Farmer in a rotting farmhouse, surrounded by many sheds and outhouses.) He lets his land, or I should say, we organise the letting out of his land.
So to the original post I would say be realistic. It would be easier to live close by to your daughter, as the possibility of travelling long haul as your age will become less likely. It will also help one of them to be on hand to help if you need it. You can still go on lovely holidays when you are able, without the responsibility of owning bricks and mortar. You can easily hire a long let in Europe.

You need to acquire less stuff, not more. Looking after two houses and travelling from country to country is very tiring. I have friends who are doing it now, and they spend their time gardening and cleaning in one house then…travelling back to the other one and cleaning and gardening. there. They are in their 70’s and not really all that well.
Spain’s inheritance laws are not at all the same as England, Neither are those of France.
I have friends who say that they are going to let their children clean up after them when they are dead….it’s extremely selfish.

We have downsized, from our six bed period home and now live near a daughter ( as my DILs have Mother’s) divested ourselves of surplus belongings and sorted our paperwork out.
We are still having fun, visit the other children and can afford to have holidays anywhere.