Woman

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/inews.co.uk/news/long-reads/ian-duncan-deputy-speaker-house-lords-interview-brother-died-ovarian-cancer-1125221/amp

There you go, pinkquartz.

inews.co.uk/news/long-reads/ian-duncan-deputy-speaker-house-lords-interview-brother-died-ovarian-cancer-1125221

ovarian cancer apparently "predominantly affects females" (!)

the article talks about the fault of health care providers for not understanding the needs of trans people, rather than focusing on the confusion that might arise from someone registering with a GP as 'male' who then doesn't get smear test notifications.

Another layer to the debate about trans should be to consider the facts that bodies do not lie.
A man dies of Ovarian Cancer because he is registered as a male, but was born into a female body .

Transwomen will be vulnerable to both Breast Cancer and Prostrate Cancer.

This entire topic is far from resolved.
I am sorry I do not know how to make the top link work as a link

And implying or suggesting transpeople can be linked with abuse is transphobic.

What is the term for implying or suggesting that people who question why intact men are in female changing rooms are homophobic?

Helen Joyce has been widely criticised for her biased reporting and unfounded claims. GLAAD a media watch organistion founded to make sure factual information about AIDs and HIV was presented in the press have criticised her
The media watchdog group called Joyce’s statements “alarming,” claiming they have “no place in a newsroom.”

“Journalists have an ethical responsibility to hold an unbiased and fact-based opinion on all issues, but especially on sensitive issues, like the health and safety of the transgender community,” claimed GLAAD chief programs officer Zeke Stokes in a statement to the Daily Dot.

Stokes added that journalists and editors must “maintain a standard that’s open-minded and accepting of all facts, even if it goes against a personal opinion.”
Of course debate should be allowed but just as you should not make racist remarks when debating race issues you shouldn't make transphobic remarks when debating trans issues.
And implying or suggesting transpeople can be linked with abuse is transphobic.
You wouldn't accuse all men of being paedophiles but a much higher percentage of them are probably involved in child abuse than any transpeople.

Laws are made to protect us from bad people not good people. Therefore if the law is changed to allow and self ID males to enter female-only spaces we have to stop that because it can become a loophole for paedophiles and sexually aggressive men to gain access. Men now legally do not even have to attempt at feminizing themselves to gain access...just say they are women. That is not good enough for any of us. Their crimes against women and children are now registered as being committed by women. So everything is getting false. The word gender is being used as a euphemism for sex because it is seen as a more poilte word. This must be properly debated and discussed. For instance I was recently asked by a manager of a bookshop on twitter what we were reading and comments. I said I was reading Material Girls by Kathleen Stock (UK university Philsophy professor) and found it fair rigorous and clear on the gender/sex debate. This was answered by a statement saying their bookshop was trans-friendly and would not allow debate. Helen Joyce's new book 'Trans' which is in the top ten of new non fiction books is not being stocked by Waterstones for example, so hard to get copies on the High Street. They profess not to have heard of it...there are no copies available can order one in etc...when it is on its third printing having only been released in July. Such censorship. Helen Joyce is Britain Editor of The Economist who has been interested in gender ideology for many years and has bravely published this book. It feels like Orwell's dystopian vision of silencing is coming true. And it is the silencing of women.

grannygranby
re woman
What do I think?, highly in fact definitely unlikely that GN
would put into print.

The problem with citing examples of trans who have no evil intents is that most people have no problem with that. Those transpeople who feel no need to make a big thing of being trans and who do not go out if their way to make it obvious, any more than most heterosexual people flaunt their heterosexuality are not an issue.
They are the ones who need protection and acceptance in the same way that gays and lesbians did and still do in some cases.
Those transpeople who use their transID for unacceptable purposes are the ones who cause the problems.
Unacceptable purposes include causing physical or mental harm to natal women; being placed in places where natal women should feel safe, especially if, like Karen White, they are incarcerated for offences against natal women; taking natal women’s places unfairly by using their male structure advantages, and claiming that their rights take precedence over those of natal women, and that those who don’t agree, e.g. lesbians who reject sexual relationships with transwomen, are homophobic, TERF, bigots etc.

Chewbacca I didn't say it was a valid argument I said it was one used by people to condemn homosexuality, and comparitively recently as far as the armed forces are concerned.
The fact still remains that transgender people have used these spaces for years without incidents. Now you seem to be equating the activities of predatory men with them. It is nothing to do with transgender issues and everything to do with abusive people who can and will use any way to access victims. Stop blaming transpeople for their crimes.

men who like men might get aroused by looking at other men in showers and not be able to control themselves.

That's a straw man argument trisher and you know it. A heterosexual man is statistically more capable of protecting himself from the unwanted advances of a homosexual man, than a child of 10 is able to protect herself from the unwanted sexual advances of a predatory male, dressed as a woman. Ditto vulnerable women in prisons, safe houses for abused women and single sex changing rooms. I'm pretty certain that you know this but choose to ignore it.

My friend did not need to control herself when she saw a man in a wig and swimsuit with barely concealed tackle in the female changing room. Her three year old was under no illusion either.

Please stop imposing your ideas onto mine. I have never felt that gay people are any more predatory than straight ones, and I have never imagined Jan Morris doing anything.

As far as I am concerned, people can live as they wish, so long as they do not impinge on the rights of others. Clearly there are times when one set of rights collides with another, but in the case of single sex spaces I feel that sex is the relevant thing, so those of a different sex (and here I do not include men who have transitioned to transwomen) should stay away from those spaces for all the reasons I have already mentioned.

Doodledogthe people you want to ban from what you call "single sex spaces" have been using them for years. I am rarely seen naked in a changing room and nor iIthink are most people so if someone has male or female parts you wouldn't know. Jan Morris who died aged 94 in 2020 transitioned in 1972, do you imagine she used male facilities for the next 40 years? Do you imagine she is the only transgender person who has been in these spaces? Why apart from a few highly publicised recent incidents are you so het up about it now? Have these transwomen in any way limited your rights as a woman in the last 50 years? Or have in fact women's rights improved and moved on?
I don't like anyone looking at my body male or female.
This argument is so reminiscent of what homosexuality used to be condemned for- men who like men might get aroused by looking at other men in showers and not be able to control themselves.

I seem to have forgotten to insert punctuation into the above post ?. Sorry - I hope it still makes sense.

GagaJo, no, it's not about people being forced to 'pass' or die in the attempt, as I am sure you know. If someone is either transitioned, or if they do not use single sex facilities they would be able to live as they wished.

As people have said 7832 times on these threads, this is not about hurting transpeople or limiting their lives other than to ask them not to use single sex spaces. By not using such spaces (which is not difficult) they would be allowing (eg) muslim women to use them. They would be allowing women who have PTSD after rape or sexual assault to use them, and would be making mothers of small children feel able to choose to use 'mother and toddler' swimming groups and change in a female changing room without men in swimming costumes sharing their space and frightening their children. Or any woman to use them who doesn't want her body to be subject to a male gaze that might make her feel uncomfortable for whatever reason.

What's wrong with any of that? Please answer without deflecting the conversation?

Deal with it reasonably and stop condemning them because by doing so you are contributing to the rise in violence and death.

That cuts both ways don't you think trisher? I won't "condemn" when women and children are safe in what's supposed to be a safe space for women and children. But those safe spaces are being removed because men say that we don't need them.

I could Chewbacca copy and paste all the incidents of transgender people being murdered because of their gender. I don't because as far as I am concerned dreadful as they are individual instances of violence only skew the argument.
I would point out that violence against transgender people is increasing and all those who choose to post or highlight incidents of someone using transgender as a means of committing a violent crime are fanning the flames of transphobia and contributing to the capacity for violence against transpeople. Just as vigilante action is not really helpful in dealing with paedophiles this "I'm not transphobic but" attitude isn't helpful with transgender issues.
Transgender people are here, they are going to stay here, they have been here for a long time. Deal with it reasonably and stop condemning them because by doing so you are contributing to the rise in violence and death.

Increasingly, I find when out and about, particularly in restaurants, we are often greeted with "Hi Guys", I know some don't like this expression, I don't mind it in the least it's used as a greeting pretty much by all the younger members of our family. I'm wondering however, why the widespread use of this collective noun hasn't been picked up by a person/people/organisation as unacceptable, and why not, as some women may find it very exclusionary, but hey they are only 50% of the population "Hi people" surely! At least those monitoring the ever changing use of language in the interests of inclusivity should be consistent in their pedantry!

Transgender prisoners are five times more likely to carry out sex attacks on inmates at women’s jails than other prisoners are, official figures show.

Male prisoners who were transferred to women’s jails during gender reassignment and women inmates who are transitioning committed seven of the 124 sex attacks recorded between 2010 and 2018. They occurred at HMP Low Newton in Co Durham, Foston Hall in Derbyshire, Peterborough, Bronzefield in Middlesex and New Hall, West Yorkshire.

Karen White, a child abuser who dressed as a woman but was still legally a man, was jailed for life in 2018 for sexually assaulting two prisoners at HMP New Hall and the rape of a woman while he was outside jail.

And, despite knowing that Dolatowski was a violent sex offender:

It was revealed by the Dundee Courier that through the Multi-Agency Public Protection Arrangement (MAPPA) with police, NHS Fife and the Scottish Prison Service, Dolatowski had been placed in a hostel for vulnerable female offenders, despite being convicted of sex offences and not having a gender recognition certificate (GRC).
A spokeswoman for Women and Girls in Scotland said: “Katie Dolatowski has already taken advantage of access to female spaces to commit sexual assault. “It is absolutely unacceptable that this person was being given the same opportunity again.

Women and children's safety being compromised again to accommodate men.

It seems to me as if the intention is to make it as hard as possible for trans people to be themselves. This innocent 10 year-old girl just wanted to "be herself" too.

A transgender woman threatened to stab a 10-year-old girl’s mother during a terrifying sexual assault in the female toilets of a Morrison’s supermarket.

Katie Dolatowski, 18, admitted grabbing the youngster by her face and forcing her into the cubicle before demanding she take her trousers off at the store in Fife, Scotland, on 4 March.
She carried out a similar attack just weeks earlier, on 8 February, when another young girl using the toilet at an Asda store in Halbeath spotted Dolatowski using a mobile phone to spy on her over the partition wall.

*There are instances of people who lived their whole lives as one sex and only after they died was their true sex discovered.
Well by the sound of it they wouldn't have posed a problem, so if the suggestion I made a slightly upthread were taken up, they could still go about their business.*

I've read several accounts of this. Terrifying. Unable to seek medical care when ill or even dying for fear of retribution when their secret was uncovered. If you don't believe me, read about Leslie Fineberg and the treatment faced when trying to access healthcare. Or Billy Tipton, who died alone because of fear of his secret being discovered.

Are we saying a trans person is only safe if they completely pass? Because with the pushing back of treatment until late teens (as is happening now) once people have gone through puberty, sexual characteristics are more defined and harder to change.

It seems to me as if the intention is to make it as hard as possible for trans people to be themselves.

All this policing of gender. If it really was natural, surely we wouldn't need to make it so hard for them?

I don’t see any problem with transgender people using facilities appropriate to their chosen gender if they have undergone sex change surgery. Men dressing as a women, doesn’t make them women, and vice versa, so why should they be allowed to use facilities not intended for their gender ? IMO it’s a safety issue more than anything else.

The core of this post is the depersonalisation of women and male to female trans-sexuals usingfemale spaces. Nothing is said or discussed about female to male trans-sexuals or male roles being depersonalised and I continue to think that this is an insidious attempt to reassert male domination over women. by reducing us to things, as happened in former times to slaves.

There are instances of people who lived their whole lives as one sex and only after they died was their true sex discovered.
Well by the sound of it they wouldn't have posed a problem, so if the suggestion I made a slightly upthread were taken up, they could still go about their business.

If, on the other hand, they decided to attend a female swimming session as an intact man, and use the communal changing room, then they would run into difficulties. I assume, however, that the people you mention would have done nothing of the sort? If they had, there would have been no question of people assuming that they were the sex they said they were - my friend's 3 year old was able to tell that the 'lady' was 'like a daddy'.

Galaxy you accept the sex people say they are. You have no proof of that or any way of verifying it. To say you do is just ridiculous. There are instances of people who lived their whole lives as one sex and only after they died was their true sex discovered.

SueDonim A list of people known to have been killed because they were transgender en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_killed_for_being_transgender
Hate crime in the UK www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48756370
Is that enough or would you like more?