Woman

Doodledog the last part of my post means that usually in our everyday lives we seldom have occasion to verify anyone's biological sex, we simply take them as the gender they present as. So there may be occasions when it is important but for the most part it isn't.

Whst does the word woman mean to you. I am not using that as a gotcha, I am genuinely curious.

I am not insisting that trisher. People can call themselves what they like. If the word women includes men it is meaningless. In the way that if the word lesbian included women who are not attracted to women it would be meaningless.

Galaxy if you want to be called a woman you can be. You just can't insist others are called it.

If you can explain to me Doodledoghow using the term people in an article- which as I explained earlier was probably done for good reason- necessitates any differentiation I would appreciate it.

But there is no respect when women ask to use the word that describes them.

But you can use what you like Galaxy. You just can't insist others must do the same. It's called respect. Just as I respect anyone else's rights I respect a transman's rights to be called a man. Now biologically he may be female but that isn't his gender of choice. Can't you see the difference.
Incidentally I think all this discussion is why more and more young people are using "they" and saying they are non-binary- so of course just people.

trisher

How have I "denied biological sex" Galaxy why is asking someone be referred to as a "person" denying anything? Biological sex exists of course it does, but I have yet to meet anyone man or woman who insisted on demonstrating theirs to me.

By that logic referring to people as 'mammals' or 'living things' wouldn't deny anything, but surely you can see that there are times when a bit of differentiation is necessary?

I'm not at all sure what the last part of your post is supposed to mean.

Actually I'll correct that not since I was very young and played "doctors and nurses" and "I'll show you mine etc" has anyone insisted on demonstrating theirs to me. Some might have tried.

By including men in the term women people deny biological sex. By saying women arent allowed to use a word to describe their reality.

grannygranby
Brilliant post ????
These activists have taken me from someone who grew up with seeing men dressed as women so therefore it was no big deal to someone who is well and truly pissed off with their rhetoric.

How have I "denied biological sex" Galaxy why is asking someone be referred to as a "person" denying anything? Biological sex exists of course it does, but I have yet to meet anyone man or woman who insisted on demonstrating theirs to me.

Well said, grannygranby!

I fear your words will fall on stony ground, however.

Those transmen disagree with you trisher, they are clearly stating that the denial of biological sex is making their lives worse.

Hi thanks for your postings. I dont in fact have a transgender child, though we are all a bit untypical in other ways. Until the law was being changed and the language was being mangled in a very one way direction I was OK about everything trans. But now? no. I'm angry at the insidious way trans activists have started to control all discourses and under the guise of liberality have (by being 'kind' who doesn't want to be kind?) they have inaccurately changed the law or tried to (thanks Maya Forstater) and successfully changed the language. When I saw the headline in the Standard which was elsewhere also printed in the same way - referring to 'pregnant people' and then read the reason for it - 'until another word is found for woman'!
I actually now have at last got going. I loathe the way that authorities from Wikipedia to NHS to ONS say that our sex is 'assigned at birth by a relative, midwife nurse of doctor'. What rubbish. Not 'recorded' or 'observed' but 'assigned' that weaselly word that implies the possibility of change. Just get another professional to assign your sex.
Oh and I have just found out it is JKRowlings birthday today. I salute her.
There comes a time when you have to put your foot down and let caring common sense take over. There's no hate. The hate comes from the trans activists who have bullied women into silence and fear. Plus ca change.

Abuse comes in many forms and from many people Galaxy. It isn't denying anything or abusing anyone to simply request the the term pregnant people is used it's simply inclusive. If you then want to add "woman" or transmen" to your individual notes I'm sure that will still be possible.
As far as the post goes if the article had said "pregnant women refusing to be vaccinated" and there was one pregnant transman refusing wouldn't that be blaming women?

Yes many transmen and women talk about their biological reality. Abuse from activists, it's very common for those transpeople who talk about the reality and importance of biological sex.

Abuse from whom Galaxy- other transmen and transwomen?

So the people that you refer to identify as trans, but they also accept their biological reality?

There are an organised group of transmen in Canada who are raising concerns about the denial of biological sex and the absolute damage this is doing to transpeople. They are very interesting to listen to, they talk about the abuse they receive in recognising their own biological sex. More and more transmen and transwomen are speaking out about this.

@trisher. I don't think there’s a lack of support for all women on this thread - I think it’s an interesting discussion of the different aspects of what’s happening in the world. Some, like myself are just trying to make sense of it all. However, if you want to talk about supporting ALL women re-read my post upthread regarding women weightlifters whose protests at a transgender male being assigned to the Olympic team were dismissed out of hand - they were called ‘privileged’ among other things. The blatant unfairness of a male born woman on a weightlifting team is there for all to see, but no, political correctness dictates that it has to be allowed. How exactly is that supporting ‘all’ women ?

Call them what you wish Tricia they are women that transitioned to men. In first instance they want to be given the identity of men. In second instance we are all people but when we had our babies we were pregnant women not people.

I suppose you are changing the terminology as often the terminology is changed for the use of words that are unacceptable for instance in racism.
All I can say if I see/know a transman that is what they have chosen to be, so stick to one choice, particularly for their child. A transman who has a child and after the birth has the full transition is too confusing for a child and should not be allowed.

^I have nothing against LBGTand Q but am fed up when it starts wanting to go back to being a woman just to use
female reproductive system^
They don't they are still transmen. That's why they are Pregnant people.

Tired listening to the same old narrative about transwomen who wished to be men. These women wanted to give up the life of being women as long as it suited them only they did not want the full transition. When they decide they want a baby
are we expected to support them regardless and call them trans-people.
Is it really us in this society that have to have unconditional
empathy towards those in the trans community when it is some of them that are going out of their way to want the best of both worlds. The question being "What do you want to be"? A man or a woman.
I have nothing against LBGTand Q but am fed up when it starts wanting to go back to being a woman just to use
female reproductive system.

As far as suporting women goes what I sense here is a reluctance to actually support all women. Because if you really support them then a woman who wishes to be a man and prefers to be a pregnant person rather than a pregnnant woman should receive your unequivocal support. If of course you want only to support women whose ideas agree with your own you won't support them.
As for the concept of calling people 'parents', not all pregnancies result in the birth of a healthy child and for some people (whatever their gender) calling them that might be rubbing salt in a wound.

I don't think many GNs are transphobic - I certainly have no problem with anyone who wants to transition (the whole process is difficult and takes a lot of determination and courage), however, by trying to stop people using the word "woman" could that not be considered "womanphobic" (yes I know that isn't a word) and prejudiced against those who are born as and continue to identify as female?