What's this scheme called please

volver

If I have a million pounds in tbe bank and you have 20 pounds in the bank, is it OK for me to avoid paying for what I need so that my children can have the million pounds?

I just don't understand that morality, sorry.

We just see it differently.

IMO if you have spent £1m(-£20), maybe on your children, and we have both paid tax on it at source, then I don't see a difference.

I doubt there is much chance of us ever agreeing, but I don't think either view is morally superior to the other.

Germanshepherdsmum

I will make sure I don’t live to go into a care home. No way.

And me…

If I have a million pounds in tbe bank and you have 20 pounds in the bank, is it OK for me to avoid paying for what I need so that my children can have the million pounds?

I just don't understand that morality, sorry.

We are tenants in common as advised by lawyer. As we each have DC from previous marriages, thus was the best way for us.

Lathyrus

I’m just going to make sure I have the best care “my money” can buy. Luxury home for me, even if I die bankrupt. ?

That's pretty much what we decided, but I don't blame anyone for choosing a different path. If we all had to pay into an earnings-related tax/insurance scheme it would be much fairer, as however much people preach I just can't see how it's ok for some people to 'dispose of their assets' as they go, but 'immoral' for others to do so ahead of possible care.

volver

I think that trying to hide your assets so that you don't have to pay your fair share, but expect the state to do it, to me that can be fairly expressed as a "moral issue".

It's not means testing, its trying to avoid people leaving inherited wealth to their descendants and expecting someone else to support them while they are alive. Its the inheritance thing that gets me. Nobody is entitled to inherit anything.

I should stop ranting...

I disagree. AFAIK that's ok on a discussion site

I’m fortunate, if you like, to get a prescription of powerful barbiturates each month for epilepsy, and also anti-depressants. I just need a bottle of Dom Perignon …! Not for a long while though I hope!

Well that would be my option too. But I’m a bit flummoxed as to how.

dosh.

Oh dear. I might be on my way there already?

I will make sure I don’t live to go into a care home. No way.

my money was meant to be in bold to emphasise that it is mine.

Using your money for good quality care is a better gift to your children than dish because it gives them their lives and time.

IMHO

I’m just going to make sure I have the best care “my money” can buy. Luxury home for me, even if I die bankrupt. ?

Oh dear.

If you give your house to your child and continue to live there, it will be included in your estate for inheritance tax unless, after the gift, you pay your child the full market rent as if you were an unrelated tenant. If you give it to your child in an attempt to escape its inclusion in an assessment for care home fees that’s deliberate deprivation of assets whether you have been paying rent or not.

I agree with you volver. Trying to escape paying care home fees by ‘disposing of’ assets, as opposed to a couple legitimately splitting jointly owned assets between them, is sponging off those who haven’t. Immoral. Sorry Kate but I strongly disapprove and am glad local authorities are wise to these ‘schemes’.

I think that trying to hide your assets so that you don't have to pay your fair share, but expect the state to do it, to me that can be fairly expressed as a "moral issue".

It's not means testing, its trying to avoid people leaving inherited wealth to their descendants and expecting someone else to support them while they are alive. Its the inheritance thing that gets me. Nobody is entitled to inherit anything.

I should stop ranting...

Kate1949

Thanks all. We are just looking at things at the moment. We're not sure what we're going to do. Just investigating options.

You are as entitled to your opinion (and to explore your options) as anyone else, Kate.

As you may have gathered, means testing is my pet hate . We decided against going down the 'leave it in trust' road, but I don't see this as a moral issue in the way some do. There are various ways of looking at the situation, and I don't think any of them occupy the moral high ground.

. . . the main one is that if after giving your house to someone (a child, grandchild) you continue to live there, you have to pay the person you gave it to the full market rent and the Inland Revenue will check every year and look for evidence you have actually paid it.

Does this apply to people allowing children to live with them, or in, say, a second home or flat bought for a student? Or, for that matter, a 'gentleman' running a pied a terre for a mistress to live in? (do they still do that?) Do dowager Duchesses pay full market rent on the dower houses they move into when the house passes to the elder son in a very similar arrangement?

If not, is it not age discrimination to apply a need to pay rent only to older people, when others may live rent free if they are lucky enough to know someone willing to allow this?

Thanks all. We are just looking at things at the moment. We're not sure what we're going to do. Just investigating options.

Kate1949

Thanks. I wish I'd never asked!

Sorry Kate1949. Told you it was my pet hate!!

Thanks. So sorry ann

I'm with volver on this. DH and I expect to pay our way. If there is nothing left for family to inherit then so be it. They are in full agreement. Wills and POAs in place

We were joint tenants, had been for 61 years.
When my H went into care, sadly only 5 months before he died, the house wasn’t taken into account and of course when he died it became mine solely without going into his estate.
Whilst on this subject, if your partner does go into care be very careful to do your own checking as to fees.
I was told categorically that ally my H’s pensions, both state and private would be used.
I had to get Age UK to send me fact sheets to disprove this.
All his state pension and half of his private pension were taken.
I was told by SS that I would have to apply for benefits.

Absolutely not true, but they were adamant at the time.
It made my very sad situation far worse.

Kate1949

Thanks. I wish I'd never asked!

But you need to know. Therefore it was a good idea to ask.

Inevitably, you will get opinions that might be critical of your motives - but surely, good to know about these also?

Social Care is a bit of a minefield... the more you understand (including people's viewpoints), the better.

dragonfly46

You can change the ownership of the house to tenants in common I believe it is called so they cannot sell the house if one of you is still living in it. I am sure someone who knows more will be along.

Yes you can, it’s what we’ve done. When one person dies the remaining spouse will then own the house and can continue to live there for as long as they like.

Thanks. I wish I'd never asked!