How many times should you apologise? If the apology is not accepted, then what?

Goodness Tommo what an awful thing to do !! Those who thought this was a Harry post, Camilla was married long before Charles met Diana and was still married when he married her and the two of them carried their affair on before, during and after both their first marriages!

For you, OP, you’ve done nothing wrong and frankly your son sounds awful ! So sad for you

Rosina Maybe there was another agenda that you were unaware of

The subject we disagreed about was our respective profession - librarianship. - and where it was going. I could see that the profession was changing (not for the better) and stepped off the ladder to go to uni and give myself other career options when I got my degree. My friend had worked in a variety of jobs (including libraries) got a degree in English, and was now employed by a local authority and attending a conversion course to a library science qualfication.

From the perspective of years it is not difficult now to see that I was right - many libraries have closed and the profession has shrunk and declined. Most libraries - except for large central reference services and academic libraries - are staffed by unqualified volunteers. So there are far fewer jobs of qualified librarians. My friend thought I was being regressive and negative. She accused me of criticising her devotion to her job. I do not know what became of my friend after we parted or whether her career prospered. I only know that colleagues I used to work with were made redundant and had to seek out other employment without being qualified for anything else.

Many people have very strong feelings about the career path they have chosen. So someone who expressed negativity about their choice might no longer seem an ideal friend.

Thats how I see it.

I know how hard it is to apologize. A-one time sincere apology is sufficient. There is no need to demean yourself by groveling. Apologize and move on. Chances are they didn’t want an apology. Out of your control and mnd.

Agree apologies with an agenda may not sit well.

Sometimes an apology can be sincerely made and just as sincerely accepted. But it doesn't mean that "all is forgotten". Sadly, some things cannot be smoothed away and forgotten, and the best thing then is a graceful distancing of oneself from the person. And (if you are the "wronged party") an effort to put it behind you, to forgive yourself.

biglouis it is always possible that there was more to the ending of this friendship than you thought - it sounds as if you did everything you could, as you were unaware of the initial reason for her being upset.
As you had been friends for 15 years, why had she not discovered that your respective views were so at odds before this incident? I don't know you, or your friend, but I have experience of a relative, whose abrupt ending of contact upset me because I had no idea why it had happened. Some time later two different people told me that she was eaten up with jealousy because she perceived I had a better life (I couldn't see why then, and I can't now) and that this had happened with other relationships she had. Maybe there was another agenda that you were unaware of?

biglouis

I had this happen with a friend of 15 years standing.

We had (what appeared to be) a minor tiff and she hung up the phone on me. It turned out that I had been expressing some views which deeply upset her. However she had never once mentioned this or given me an opportunity to amend my behaviour by avoiding this subject. In effect, she made use of a minor disagreement to end our friendship. She told me that she believed our differences to be fundamental and irrevocable and I had to respect her wishes. It hurt me a lot at the time. However I had just begun uni as a mature student and I then concentrated all my energies on my degree.

A couple of years ago I found her on Facebook and sent a very brief message asking if she was well but recieved no reply.

If you never tell someone that what they are doing or saying deeply upsets or offends you then you are being very unfair to them. People may not be willing to alter deeply held views or opinions for your sake. However adults can agree to disagree and keep away from contentious subjects.

Well said about agreeing to disagree and keeping away from contentious subjects. I have one friend who life has not been that kind to and she is one of the only people I know where I can say something and she will say 'That's interesting. This is how I feel about it'. We can air subjects without getting offended as we are on the same page. I think it is maturity and also life world experience.

I missed out the part where I wrote to my friend, telling her how much the friendship meant to me and that I was sorry to have upset her. I also pointed out that she had never mentioned her aversion to my views. Had she done so, I would have valued the friendship sufficiently to amend my behaviour going forward. Clearly she was unable to forgive me because she never gave me that opportunity.

I had this happen with a friend of 15 years standing.

We had (what appeared to be) a minor tiff and she hung up the phone on me. It turned out that I had been expressing some views which deeply upset her. However she had never once mentioned this or given me an opportunity to amend my behaviour by avoiding this subject. In effect, she made use of a minor disagreement to end our friendship. She told me that she believed our differences to be fundamental and irrevocable and I had to respect her wishes. It hurt me a lot at the time. However I had just begun uni as a mature student and I then concentrated all my energies on my degree.

A couple of years ago I found her on Facebook and sent a very brief message asking if she was well but recieved no reply.

If you never tell someone that what they are doing or saying deeply upsets or offends you then you are being very unfair to them. People may not be willing to alter deeply held views or opinions for your sake. However adults can agree to disagree and keep away from contentious subjects.

"Dee1012 Tue 10-Jan-23 12:16:30
I think the issue isn't so much with forgiving, it's forgetting!

I've accepted a genuine apology from certain people over the years but with some, I can't forget the action that precipitated the apology...in all honesty for me they are never a new or better person, they’re just the same old piece of shit in a different coloured sweetie wrapping."

As Dee said, it's not just about forgiving, it's forgetting. I also think it depends both on what they're apologising for, and the intention behind the initial 'misdemeanour'.

For instance, consider these scenarios:

- my sister knocks over my favourite glass and breaks it. I love the glass, but it was clearly an accident, I'm upset (I won it for soemthing I worked hard on), but know there was no intent to hurt me / break it. I accept her apology.

My MIL lies about me, including to my father (upsetting him greatly), and causes me difficulties both at work and in my private / family life. She has made the lies up herself, she knows it will cause me big problems. When confronted, she apologises. However, her behaviour doesn't really change, she's not sorry she did it, and is happy it's caused upset and issues. I may accept the apology on the face of it, but I will never forget, or trust her again, as the intention was to cause others to dislike me and make work hard.

A girl is sexually abused by a work colleague when he's drunk upset / frustrated . He apologises, and it never happens again. Should she accept that apology?

The opinion further up that people should 'be left to stew in their own juices', and are wrong not to accept an apology is frankly worrying, and one person's feelings over an incident is often very different to someone else's.

I got too involved with my GD for 5 years, it affected my health badly. She's still the same now, money mad, age 21. Still see her but once a month instead of weekly.

I often think when people want an apology they don't always understand the circumstances in which you may have acted in that way. For at the time you were acting on information and circumstances right there and then which made it right at that particular time. If in hindsight that was wrong then you just say given the events and circumstances at that time it was the right decision so I made it. New information comes to light later but you still can't change what you did but going forward you can take account of history and move forward. You can't have regrets for something that you can't change so just accept it or forget it.

Once is enough - an explanation, an apology, a note to express continuing love and an ever-open door, then leave it. Let your message stay there for your son to revisit in the hope that it will mean something one day.

My mother was the most awful mother a child could have been landed with.
My solution was to leave home as soon as I could and never return, I never spoke to her for over 25 yrs before she died.
I certainly would never write a book about it and expect people to feel sorry for me. No apology would change the treatment.

Why did he not just move away and cut all contact? Give himself peace of mind and leave the rest of his family to get on with their lives in peace.

It sounds as if you are getting to the point where you might be able to carry through non or minimal contact, OnwardsandUpwards.

Because you know that you've reached that point but its so hard to let go and lose hope of "repair*. But from what I've read, in other postings from you, you acknowledge he has a personality disorder and his charactur structure depends on blaming others for life's hurts and difficulties.

And yes a therapist might help him but only if he wants to take that route, which means owning to his words and actions. And he's not at that point, to face his vulnerability under the rage and bluster.

Time to call it a day in terms of hopes that you can repair this yourself as things stand now. Time may help, but there's no knowing.

And it does hurt, loss and grief involved.

I know exactly how you feel ….heartbreaking xx

I think, when you have apologised once then, perhaps discussed/reiterated that apology. Beyond that, enough!!!! Otherwise, there can be an assumption that you can be worn down/manipulated and become the whipping boy.

I too feel that once we have realised that we did or said something wrong and have sincerely apologised, then the matter should be allowed to drop.

If anyone, and I have experienced this formerly, kept on harping on whatever it was, after appearing to accept the apology, my reaction would be, "Look, we have been through this. I have apologised, and you accepted my apology. If you no longer want to see or speak to me, I shall accept that. If you do want to still see me, then please stop harping on what I did wrong. I did not do it on purpose, and I do not understand why having accepted my apology you keep on about it. If you don't stop this, I shall be forced to say I no longer want to see you."

That said, it depends on the gravity of the offence to some extent. I cannot honestly say I would find it easy to welcome X who in my opinion treated both DH and I very badly, even if we received a sincere apology. It can be difficult to trust someone who has wronged you. But that is no excuse for continually reminding them of what they did wrong.

OnwardandUpward

Supposing someone finds fault with something you have done (or not done) and you apologise- but then they keep bringing it up and it becomes obvious that they have become bitter and cruel because they are eaten up with the upset they believe you have caused? It seems to me that an apology is not always accepted and not always enough.

This, in the context of many people who are estranged - including our own King who I am sure must have explained and apologised many times.

When has Charles apologised,? He hasn't. Apologises don't count anyway. Actions speak louder than words. Charles is a weak man.

The actions of the royal household staff and 1 or 2 specific RF members continue to under the guise of sources/experts brief against them anyway, to the press.

Try watching the Netflix series and reading the book to get the full story instead of going off dubious headlines/click bait/and the parts of the media who are vile, lieing, twisting, reading in the media the tabloid trash or/and hearing what you want to hear.

H & M have been treated appallingly

I apologised after a family argument which was around inheritance, I have learnt this causes a majority of family rows. I apologised for upsetting everyone several times. I apologised genuinely and profusely for the upset the whole situation had caused. I have never been properly forgiven and perhaps I cannot properly forgive either. I think that there are a lot of other issues going back several years. It has caused me major hurt over several years but recently I have been able to put it behind me and move on, accepting what happened, my role but also things family members did and said which they have never apologised for. Don't let it destroy your peace of mind.

Yes. I'm the same. Apologise too much. I don't know why?. I've not always been over apologetic. Yes I will always apologise if in the wrong but even ppl are noticing I say sorry for ridiculous things. I don't even know I'm doing it. I give advice to others but what's the old saying " Follow your own advice" . New Year & that's what I intend to do. One particular person I can't do right for doing wrong. I have not apologised on this occasion ( well done me ). Because, I genuinely have done nothing wrong. I am not even going to say " I'm sorry you feel like that" blah blah blah because I have explained the situation & I am being portrayed as the bad one so no I will not apologise. Said person has a personal problem with me. Over the years I have said sorry so often when I haven't done anything wrong just to keep the peace & to see my GC. No,not doing it this time. So I suppose I am learning that you can't be the 1 constantly saying sorry. Especially when you know you've done nothing wrong. Unfortunately our best will never be good enough. We get dragged into situations that we aren't even involved in. Some people love drama. Let them get on with it. They will believe their version anyway. Xx

Just tell them this is your last time apologising and you will not be doing it again and if it is not accepted then forget it.
It might cause you pain but they are causing you as much and are pulling the puppet strings.
Remembering some of my relations and enjoying the process too.
I told my late mother if she shouted at me again on the phone I was putting it down and she would have to be the first to pick it up. She did not believe me so after an anxious week I phoned and she shouted again so I did put the phone down.
Eventually, she phoned me, no apologies but at least she had been the first to make contact and no longer shouted.

I suggest you write down your apology for one last time and add a description of how you are feeling, and why. Then put it with your will, or if you haven't made one, put it in a safe place and tell someone you trust where it is.
Then try and ignore all the hurt he is piling on you.

We all make mistakes. We have the option to apologise. How that is received is not within our control. If someone's heart is hard and firmly shut down there is little chance that that will change with any more apologies. They usually like to stay in the victim and poor me position as that not only allows them to hold the position of 'being right' but also means they don't have to access the pain/anger they need to process ( that might have nothing to do with the person they are punishing) and therefore not have to do any internal work to change.

And after a couple of apologies if one continues to reach out to the 'injured' party it just gives them fuel to be abusive and hurtful all over again and justify their bad behaviour. They are set on punishment! A person must protect themselves from this.

We never know why others behave in the ways they do and it's a waste of time trying to figure it out but generally I think it's to do with their level of maturity and lack thereof.

We don't have to feel guilty for making mistakes... they are very human and simply offer an opportunity to learn to do something differently.

Ilovecheese

I thought this might be an interesting thread, but no, just another Prince Harry one.

this

I am sick of people commenting on a family that they are no part of and choosing sides because of what the media says
It must be so tiring thinking about it so much and surmising things that may or may not have happened that you have to comment about it