How many times should you apologise? If the apology is not accepted, then what?

Kryptonite

You say the more you did for him the worse he treated you. Some kids resent the help their parents give because it shows they cannot help themselves, and they resent this. I'm no psychologist, but this kind of makes sense in a bizarre way. And yet we give until it hurts. His jealousy of you talking to his wife sounds like paranoia and fear of rejection. Some complex issues going on perhaps. Hopefully, he will work things out for himself in time.

Unfortunately he was taking the drug ayahuasca (also known as DMT) and other drugs such as magic mushrooms and substances which I haven't even heard of. He was going on guided trips with a shaman who was telling him things "about us. "

These shamans are probably false and just taking people's money, peddling my kid and other's kid a cocktail of mind bending drugs and telling them rubbish to separate them from their family so they can sell them more nonsense.

He already had been sectioned for MH, but these drugs have made the paranoia and hostility 100x worse .

I hope so. For now, I will stay silent. I have apologized more than enough, I feel. It really is him who should be apologising for being so hostile and downright cruel.

He's mainly angry that I agreed to sign the papers for him to be sectioned about ten years ago. I have said sorry, but I realise now that I'm not 100% sorry and it cannot be undone in any case because the time has passed. Also, I'm not a Dr and I can't suggest those things, but I did agree. I am not 100% sure he would still be alive if we had not agreed. It was his MH that made the various MH staff suggest a section and I'm sure any loving parent would do their best to save their child. I will not any longer apologise for doing my absolute BEST for such an ungrateful child.

I suppose it depends on what the apology was for. if it is oh gee I am so sorry I missed your birthday I totally just didnt realise it was today...... or oh gee I am sorry I stole your boyfriend.... or oh gee I am sorry I ruined our friendship but I am saying sorry so it is ok now
sometimes saying the words isnt enough if the issue is big enough, you have to back up the words with actions and sometimes no amount of sorry is ever gong to fix it

Yes, you're right.

He is very paranoid due to his MH and his drug use. He literally cannot stand us having anything to do with each other. The last time we saw our GC, they stayed with us for a day and had a wonderful time. Unfortunately when they went home, they talked incessantly about what a wonderful time they had had, which made my son even more paranoid and I think that's why he cut off contact.

I hope so. I am not confident that he will manage his kids becoming of an age where they developing their own personalities, wants and needs to socialise, sadly. I do know that his wife recently visited her country but do not know if she returned. I would certainly understand if she wanted to give her kids the chance for an education and family life that they truly deserve, with her family as they cannot have it with ours.

I want what is best for my GC. I hope one day to find out if they are still together and if not, to make contact with my DiL.

You say the more you did for him the worse he treated you. Some kids resent the help their parents give because it shows they cannot help themselves, and they resent this. I'm no psychologist, but this kind of makes sense in a bizarre way. And yet we give until it hurts. His jealousy of you talking to his wife sounds like paranoia and fear of rejection. Some complex issues going on perhaps. Hopefully, he will work things out for himself in time.

madeleine45

This may have finished but did not see this thread previously.
I had a situation within my family where the refusal to accept that there was a problem eventually led to my separating myself from this person. I am very sad about it but it definitely was causing a lot of pain and upset for other people too and after a long time thinking about it I no longer keep in touch with them, although I do hear in general terms that they are ok etc. I only hope one day they may wish to deal with this but in the meantime we are all better accepting the situation as it now is and not constantly raking things over and getting upset.

Sorry to hear that Madeleine. I also hope the same, but the only person we can change is ourselves
I think it is good to let go. It's hard though isn't it.

I'm glad for you that the situation isn't anymore being raked over. That's a positive, isn't it. I feel the same.

Even with the best , most heartfelt and genuine apology, the person who is apologised to still has the choice whether to accept the apology or to reject it. I think it is sensible to remove ourselves from the firing line, if all someone wants to do is rake things over and take pot shots.

I hope in time things improve for you , me and anyone this affects.

Mollygo

Uninvitedme

The Lord says give someone 7×70 time. 🙏🏼

I think it’s 77 times, but the forgiveness has to be on both sides.
Even a heartfelt apology is wasted on someone who has no intention of forgiving the wrong they feel has been done.

Maybe that's because you can decide forgive someone even without them apologizing, because it's heavy to carry a grudge- or because you have to forgive more things than are apologised for.
Maybe a lot of people never get an apology but then to carry the hurt would be heavy.

They say that writing your thoughts and emotions out in words is a good form of therapy. Perhaps everyone’s contribution to your dilemma plus all your responses has or will help you put this to rest. Be easy on yourself and go easy on your heart. Know that you are not the only person who suffers from family estrangement. Trying to convince yourself over and over is self-destructive. Start living and keep loving those who are still in your tribe. When you stop talking about this to everyone, you’ll know you’re on the right path. Accept your choice to choose YOU.
Cheers!
USA Gundy

That seems rather a lot ?

Uninvitedme

The Lord says give someone 7×70 time. 🙏🏼

I think it’s 77 times, but the forgiveness has to be on both sides.
Even a heartfelt apology is wasted on someone who has no intention of forgiving the wrong they feel has been done.

The Lord says give someone 7×70 time. 🙏🏼

This may have finished but did not see this thread previously.
I had a situation within my family where the refusal to accept that there was a problem eventually led to my separating myself from this person. I am very sad about it but it definitely was causing a lot of pain and upset for other people too and after a long time thinking about it I no longer keep in touch with them, although I do hear in general terms that they are ok etc. I only hope one day they may wish to deal with this but in the meantime we are all better accepting the situation as it now is and not constantly raking things over and getting upset.

Your best is always good enough onward. Your son sounds ‘stuck’ and only he can do anything about it.
Don’t apologise any more, it will only invite another upsetting response fir you.

Yes. I said sorry but every time he felt like it he was dragging up the same old stuff as if I'd not said sorry.
If a genuine sorry is not enough and he has got bitter over it then I can't help him as I'm not a Priest, a Dr or a Therapist.

VS I do see what your dad means and it's a good one, but my son only drags up one part of history and doesn't have any complaints about the present tense. It hasn't made any difference Being Sorry.

I am not the same as I was ten years ago as I'm always changing and evolving, learning new things, so I might not do the same things now -but I can't change what was done. I can honestly say hand on heart that I've always done my best and who can do better than their absolute best?

If it's a genuine apology, you do it once. If it isn't accepted, there is no point in continuing.

Good for you Tommo. Sorry I didn't answer before as I thought you were joking, but now I see you weren't. Glad you have a woman who is specific. I think it does help.

Smileless2012

Great post @11.55 Philippa.

It is possible to accept an apology but prefer not to continue in the relationship but I don't think it's always possible to forget.

Women.
Do all of them believe they know what a man is thinking?
I don’t have the capacity to know what is thought which might be contrary to what is said.
Perhaps my motivation was to illustrate the frustrations I have in understanding the concept of ‘say one thing, mean another’.
I have since re married to a woman who says exactly what she thinks. Although it can be blunt and occasionally uncomfortable, I can cope, knowing full well she is saying exactly wh

Kryptonite

I wonder how you dil sees all this?Perhaps the perceived wrongs give him the perfect excuse to behave as he does, and you get the blame for that, of course. Asking you to apologise over and over again is actually a way of humiliating you and also testing your loyalty. Don't apologise any more. It sounds as though you may be afraid of him. It's time he took responsibility for himself as an adult. Many people are able to forgive their parents or at least live with past hurts. You can't change the past but only try to be better in future. Maybe you should wait for him to come to you when he can treat you with more respect.💐

My DiL is isolated by him and we cannot even talk without him getting furious. This started when they lived with us. He is very jealous of either of us talking to anyone who isn't him.

Yes. I stopped replying to him several months ago because I do see that he was trying to bring shame and humiliation for things in the past. Even he could not find anything to be angry about in the present tense. We literally could not have done more for them, but the more we did, the worse he treated us. I am done until he changes. I value my health and my life. Thanks

Hi onward. This scenario resonates with me. My sister is always right. So much so, that I didn't hear from her for two years. Then her husband died, and I was on the end of the phone every night for four hours. I was exhausted. He wasnt a nice man any way. I was there for her. No shes gone again. So next time I wont be so available. Some people think they are very important and let us all know. I wont be there next time. Tired of being used. Sometimes walking away is the best option. Take care of you first. Hugs

Great post @11.55 Philippa.

It is possible to accept an apology but prefer not to continue in the relationship but I don't think it's always possible to forget.

Tommie is just a man showing off with his empty box gesture. He probably expected his wife to say -“Oh, darling, how funny! I love your wit !” . Then she’d fall into his manly arms. My late partner bought perfume for his ex at Christmas. He bought me a CARDIGAN ! He apologised many times - once I’d explained the anomaly- but the damage was done. Men ! 🙄

Ah right. Thank you for explaining. Others had bought that up on the same presumption. My apologies.

I still stand by. the actions speak louder than words. An apology given and meant with actions to prove is enough.

If a person is still apologising then there is a very unhealthy relationship and both need to look at what's going on for them.

It's called what's my part in this. Even if the other person is wrong my part is how I am reacting to it.

I wonder how you dil sees all this?Perhaps the perceived wrongs give him the perfect excuse to behave as he does, and you get the blame for that, of course. Asking you to apologise over and over again is actually a way of humiliating you and also testing your loyalty. Don't apologise any more. It sounds as though you may be afraid of him. It's time he took responsibility for himself as an adult. Many people are able to forgive their parents or at least live with past hurts. You can't change the past but only try to be better in future. Maybe you should wait for him to come to you when he can treat you with more respect.💐

Keffie12

OnwardandUpward

Supposing someone finds fault with something you have done (or not done) and you apologise- but then they keep bringing it up and it becomes obvious that they have become bitter and cruel because they are eaten up with the upset they believe you have caused? It seems to me that an apology is not always accepted and not always enough.

This, in the context of many people who are estranged - including our own King who I am sure must have explained and apologised many times.

When has Charles apologised,? He hasn't. Apologises don't count anyway. Actions speak louder than words. Charles is a weak man.

The actions of the royal household staff and 1 or 2 specific RF members continue to under the guise of sources/experts brief against them anyway, to the press.

Try watching the Netflix series and reading the book to get the full story instead of going off dubious headlines/click bait/and the parts of the media who are vile, lieing, twisting, reading in the media the tabloid trash or/and hearing what you want to hear.

H & M have been treated appallingly

My post is not about the RF.

Not everything is about the RF!

Someone close to me (person A) had a massive and seemingly totally OTT and unjustified reaction to something rather insignificant said by another person close to me (person B).

Person A completely lost it and ordered Person B (and partner) to leave the house, where they were supposed to be staying for the weekend.

That was some 15 years ago, and since then, A will barely tolerate Bs presence, though as they are related by marriage, they cannot avoid each other totally. B still has no idea what caused this massive outburst.

I have only finally found out myself in the last year what was behind it, through small things that two people close to A have said, enabling me to put 2 and 2 together.

It all goes back to horrible things that B had said about A to friends of A, while a guest some years earlier at a party hosted by A! A had learned of this from those friends just before the outburst.

The thing is, if I were to tell B what was behind everything, that it was their own complete lack of tact and stupidity in badmouthing their host to their host's friends, at their host's home, I know that a) they would not remember it (their indiscretion), but they would try to apologise anyway, but I am quite certain that an apology would not be accepted .

The very fact that B thought those things about A, and that A now knows what they think, means that nothing can improve.

Some things just cannot be fixed with an apology.

My dad always said:

"Don't say sorry, be sorry"

I guess that ties in with:

"Actions speak louder than words"