I don't want to take Statins. Advice please.

Iam64, I totally agree with you but it's quite difficult at the moment to get quality time with a GP in order to discuss things. In the surgery where I worked we used to take in, almost on a daily basis, large quantities of unused drugs that had been hoarded by the now deceased patient. Relatives staggered in with bin bags full of bottles of Duphalac and packs of drugs, hundreds of them which we then had to dispose of. Some we could send overseas to charities who worked in deprived countries that were crying out for pain medication etc. Then the powers that be decided it was a Health and Safety issue so surgeries had to stop doing it and that huge mountain of unused drugs had to be disposed of. The argument was that nobody could be sure if the medication was stored "properly" in the patients home environment. Try telling that to someone in Syria writhing in pain. Waste, it's what is decimating our NHS.

I'm not getting the slightest bit worked up about defending statins. We all own our own bodies and I don't care that much what other people do with theirs. I take statins and I will continue to do so. My body, my choice! I don't care what other people think. However, I do care about people who spread misinformation.

The only thing I'm cross about is people who think they know better than their GP and throw prescribed medications away. Apart from the fact it's a waste of money and polluting the sewage system, it's a waste of a precious GP appointment and I'm sure there are others who actually value the GP's opinion, who would jump at the chance of the appointment.

Also, flushing drugs down the toilet, means that those drugs then go into the sewage system. What if everyone did that? So irresponsible and a dreadful waste of NHS funds.

Chakotay - why waste the nhs resources by collecting prescriptions then flushing the drugs down the toilet? What on earth prevents adults from a grown up discussion with their GP, no thanks I don’t want to take the drugs.

You are correct Growstuff, it's how contractors, (be it a Pharmacy or the GP) get paid for supplying medication to the general population. When a particular drug comes off licence it becomes available as a generic product and the price drops. It's why millions of patients were prescribed Simvastatin (a generic). It was cheap, therefore more profit for the GP who has to balance his drug budget. This particular drug was the cause of many of the problems that patients had when statins became the new "wonder drug".
It was prescribed to patients until one by one, they started to complain of muscle pain, brain fog etc. Articles started to appear in the press, patients who stopped them and requested an alternative (but more expensive) were given them as GP's realised that the side effects were serious. New statins started to come along which is why there are now different formulations. I find it interesting that there are several posters on here who are strident in their defence of statins and are getting quite worked up; to the point where I wonder if they have shares!
Of course patients should not continue to collect their medication, not take it or flush it down the loo but I can understand why they do, such is the pressure on GP's to medicate us all. Statins can be a life saver to some patients but not to all which is how this thread started.

Chakotay

Grantanow

There's a lot of loony nonsense talked about statins. Millions of people take them every day and so do I with no ill effects whatsoever.

@Grantanow it is certainly not looney nonsense, when my husband was 60 he started to have aches and pains, he couldn't walk without the aid of 2 sticks, obviously he went to his GP who could find no reason for his lack of mobility and pain, it was only when I saw him take his Statins and read the bumph in the leaflet that I saw it might be the side effects of them he stopped taking them and the pains stopped within a week, a few years later a new GP wanted to put him back on them he refused he was referred to a Lipid Consultant to totally understood his reason for stopping them (obviously even some medical professionals believe the 'loony nonsense') my husband is now 74 and has no mobility problems at all.

And I wouldn't be so sure that millions take them without any problems either, I was at A Christmas lunch where everyone was over pension age, we were talking about them and one man said he got so fed up with his GP insisting that he had to take them and his aches and pains were due to old age, so he just gets his repeat prescription and flushes them down the loo, about 6 people at the lunch admitted to doing the same, I bet they are not the only ones either. I doubt very much if the NHS actually know how many people take them without side effects and neither do you.

So why don't these people report problems? Why are they wasting money by flushing the meds down the toilet?

Nobody is forcing anybody to take anything. If these people have a heart attack or stroke, it will be assumed they are taking their prescribed statins. Why don't they be honest, so that researchers have more accurate statistics?

No wonder some people think there's a waste problem in the NHS!

buffyfly9

Foxie48. Next time you go to your to your GP kindly ask him if he gets paid for writing a prescription. He may then direct you to the Prescription Pricing Authority. Where do you think your prescription goes when you hand it in to the chemist? How does a pharmacy get paid for dispensing the drug out of their stock rather than if you have it dispensed by your GP??? The pharmacy (Boots etc) sends the Prescription to the PPA and the GP gets paid for writing it. It's not me who needs to do any research, it's you.

Contractors (ie pharmacists) are paid for the number of prescriptions that they dispense. Each month they send their prescriptions to the NHS Business Services Authority (NHS BSA) who acts on behalf of the Department of Health and Social Care.

www.england.nhs.uk/contact-us/privacy-notice/how-we-use-your-information/our-services/primary-care-commissioning/#:~:text=Contractors%20are%20paid%20for%20the,by%20courier%20for%20paper%20documents.

If they can source medications from cheaper suppliers, they make more profit.

tictacnana

After my last health check I was called in to discuss something about my blood results. Couldn’t tell me over the ‘phone. Scared the pants off me! It was to tell me that my cholesterol was LOW but I could still have statins if I wanted them.! Are GPS on commission from statin manufacturers ? I take Benecol - the little bottles . Quite nice.

No, they're not.

Grantanow

There's a lot of loony nonsense talked about statins. Millions of people take them every day and so do I with no ill effects whatsoever.

@Grantanow it is certainly not looney nonsense, when my husband was 60 he started to have aches and pains, he couldn't walk without the aid of 2 sticks, obviously he went to his GP who could find no reason for his lack of mobility and pain, it was only when I saw him take his Statins and read the bumph in the leaflet that I saw it might be the side effects of them he stopped taking them and the pains stopped within a week, a few years later a new GP wanted to put him back on them he refused he was referred to a Lipid Consultant to totally understood his reason for stopping them (obviously even some medical professionals believe the 'loony nonsense') my husband is now 74 and has no mobility problems at all.

And I wouldn't be so sure that millions take them without any problems either, I was at A Christmas lunch where everyone was over pension age, we were talking about them and one man said he got so fed up with his GP insisting that he had to take them and his aches and pains were due to old age, so he just gets his repeat prescription and flushes them down the loo, about 6 people at the lunch admitted to doing the same, I bet they are not the only ones either. I doubt very much if the NHS actually know how many people take them without side effects and neither do you.

I’m taking statins and they lowered my cholesterol levels dramatically I only wish I had taken them earlier otherwise I wouldn’t have had a stroke
Get on them straight away regardless of cost implications your health matters more.
I’m fortunate I only had to change them once,I listened too long at the negative reaction of others
The first prescription gave me a terrible runny nose but apart from that I’ve no longer got any side effects and living the life.

Good luck take charge of your own body

Foxie48. Next time you go to your to your GP kindly ask him if he gets paid for writing a prescription. He may then direct you to the Prescription Pricing Authority. Where do you think your prescription goes when you hand it in to the chemist? How does a pharmacy get paid for dispensing the drug out of their stock rather than if you have it dispensed by your GP??? The pharmacy (Boots etc) sends the Prescription to the PPA and the GP gets paid for writing it. It's not me who needs to do any research, it's you.

After my last health check I was called in to discuss something about my blood results. Couldn’t tell me over the ‘phone. Scared the pants off me! It was to tell me that my cholesterol was LOW but I could still have statins if I wanted them.! Are GPS on commission from statin manufacturers ? I take Benecol - the little bottles . Quite nice.

I admit to being swayed by Kendrick when I initially refused to take statins.

However, since then I have read dozens of research articles and many of his claims are just downright wrong.

He is partially right that high fat diets don't affect cholesterol levels. Since he wrote the book, there has been much research about the causes of high cholesterol. For example, it's known that high carb diets can have an effect.

There is irrefutable evidence that statins lower cholesterol levels and that high LDL and triglycerides cause some kinds of heart attacks and strokes - but not all. For example, cholesterol doesn't cause coronary episodes caused by atrial fibrillation.

Statins do offer significant protection, but they're not a magic wand and won't stop all strokes and heart attacks. That's the same as nearly every treatment. It's all about risk.

I'd like to see the evidence for death and deformed babies. It's not disputed that statins can cause side effects for some patients, so it's about balancing the side effects against the known benefits - again, the same for every single medicine.

And again, medical experts are not all paid huge sums of money by statin manufacturers.

foxie48

buffyfly9

As the former practice manager mentioned on here, I can tell you that a GP practice is a BUSINESS. GP's are self employed contractors to the NHS and as such have to manage their budgets like any other type of business. It is target driven, drug companies offer special discounts for bulk purchases, yes, they take the GP's out to lunch,( including myself on lots of occasions) and yes, deals are done over the pudding course!! That is not to say that the GP's don't care for their patients or do a good job, we need them. Every time they write a prescription they get paid for the drug and they get paid for writing it. Big Pharma is everywhere, it's a group of doctors who sit down in an office in London and decide what the ideal blood pressure should be in the general population (it keeps going down, if you notice). Question everything you are told, do your own research and then and only then take the medical advice you are given.

This is absolute nonsense, below is the only bit of your post that I agree with, please provide evidence that GPs get paid by pharmaceutical companies every time they write a prescription. Pity you don't take your own advice.
"Question everything you are told, do your own research and then and only then take the medical advice you are given."

Yes, it is nonsense.

I was put on them after a slight stroke, even though my cholesterol levels are low, and have not noticed any side effects at all. Nothing.

According to Kendrick:[23]

A high-fat diet has no impact on blood cholesterol levels.
High cholesterol levels do not cause or increase the risk of heart disease.
Statins do not protect against heart disease by lowing cholesterol levels.
The protection provided by statins is so small it is not worth bothering with.
Statins have many negative side effects including death and creation of deformed babies.
All medical experts should be ignored as they are paid large sums of money from statin manufacturers.
The only expert that should be listened to is Malcolm Kendrick.
Dr Malcolm Kendrick? Yup did a bit of research, he's an odd one isn't he? Seems a lot of people think he's a bit out of step with most other doctors. Can you cite some peer reviewed research that support any of his views?
In The Great Cholesterol Con (2008), he argues the above claims but fails to back this up with reliable scientific evidence. It has an irresponsible chapter titled "Eat whatever you like (Diet has nothing to do with heart disease)". Kendrick is not a dietician and lacks education in nutrition. The book makes the following arrogant statement in regard to the above claims:

buffyfly9

As the former practice manager mentioned on here, I can tell you that a GP practice is a BUSINESS. GP's are self employed contractors to the NHS and as such have to manage their budgets like any other type of business. It is target driven, drug companies offer special discounts for bulk purchases, yes, they take the GP's out to lunch,( including myself on lots of occasions) and yes, deals are done over the pudding course!! That is not to say that the GP's don't care for their patients or do a good job, we need them. Every time they write a prescription they get paid for the drug and they get paid for writing it. Big Pharma is everywhere, it's a group of doctors who sit down in an office in London and decide what the ideal blood pressure should be in the general population (it keeps going down, if you notice). Question everything you are told, do your own research and then and only then take the medical advice you are given.

This is absolute nonsense, below is the only bit of your post that I agree with, please provide evidence that GPs get paid by pharmaceutical companies every time they write a prescription. Pity you don't take your own advice.
"Question everything you are told, do your own research and then and only then take the medical advice you are given."

buffyfly9

As the former practice manager mentioned on here, I can tell you that a GP practice is a BUSINESS. GP's are self employed contractors to the NHS and as such have to manage their budgets like any other type of business. It is target driven, drug companies offer special discounts for bulk purchases, yes, they take the GP's out to lunch,( including myself on lots of occasions) and yes, deals are done over the pudding course!! That is not to say that the GP's don't care for their patients or do a good job, we need them. Every time they write a prescription they get paid for the drug and they get paid for writing it. Big Pharma is everywhere, it's a group of doctors who sit down in an office in London and decide what the ideal blood pressure should be in the general population (it keeps going down, if you notice). Question everything you are told, do your own research and then and only then take the medical advice you are given.

Thank you *Buffyfly9” 👏

foxie and growstuff do you understand it yet?🤔 as I keep saying the Practice gets the money. Are you maybe imagining we are suggesting the GPs get little brown envelopes full of money? As Buffyfly9 says they are a business.

You can do your research as well as me.

drmalcolmkendrick.org/2022/04/25/evidence-based-medicine-it-was-a-good-idea/

For a start, most statins are now generics. It is up to the pharmacist which brand is supplied to the patient. Secondly, QOFs don't work like that.

buffly Were you a practice manager in England? What you have described just isn't true.

I don't believe in taking preventative medicines , what if it meant they would lessen the chance of you being seriously ill?

I have taken prophylactic antibiotics for years, because I am immunocompromised, have bronchiectasis and brittle asthma. I will be on them for the rest of my life.

I used have have chest infections on a regular basis, which floored me for weeks. Since starting them, the frequency of episodes dropped dramatically.
RA and COPD are not a good combination, it can greatly increase the possibility of rheumatoid lung, which is a terminal illness.

Therefore, I do believe in preventative medicine.

As the former practice manager mentioned on here, I can tell you that a GP practice is a BUSINESS. GP's are self employed contractors to the NHS and as such have to manage their budgets like any other type of business. It is target driven, drug companies offer special discounts for bulk purchases, yes, they take the GP's out to lunch,( including myself on lots of occasions) and yes, deals are done over the pudding course!! That is not to say that the GP's don't care for their patients or do a good job, we need them. Every time they write a prescription they get paid for the drug and they get paid for writing it. Big Pharma is everywhere, it's a group of doctors who sit down in an office in London and decide what the ideal blood pressure should be in the general population (it keeps going down, if you notice). Question everything you are told, do your own research and then and only then take the medical advice you are given.

My doctor suggested statins without even knowing what my cholesterol was, as it hadn't been checked. It still hasn't, 2 years later. I don't believe in taking preventative medicines especially those which give you muscle pain as a side-effect.

It doesn't foxie. I've already tried to explain, but I give up.

Primrose53

foxie48

Would someone who has said that doctors get paid for putting patients on statins, please provide evidence from a reliable source? My understanding is that GPs get paid for the health check that they do, not for the prescribing, which is a very different thing. I am very happy to be proved wrong but I would like to see evidence rather than anecdotal opinions. Thanks.

managementinpractice.com/practice-intelligence/qof-2023-24-what-practices-need-to-consider-to-gain-maximum-income/

They are given QOF points for various treatments and high cholesterol is one of them. QOF points are then translated into income which can massively increase income for the GP Practice. Once a patient is on them, they are most likely on them for the rest of their life so the points keep on coming in and so does their income.

There is a former Practice Manager on this thread who may add more info for you. She also said that most GPs are too busy to sit and discuss diet, stress etc with you so it’s easier to just prescribe statins. My old school friend is also a retired Practice Manager so I learned a lot about this from her. She also told me that the drug companies provide lots of freebies to staff ranging from pens and notebooks to very expensive fine dining type meals out, laptops etc.

Not the same, where does it say they get paid for prescribing statins?