End of my tether

I was a childminder for a while. When the carer changes at handback time some kids act up. In some cases punishing parent for leaving them in the first place and in others testing a changed set of boundaries.
So possible GS does act up when he gets home, even if he has had a lovely time away.
He could also be feeling he must be on his best behaviour at Grans and can.relax and be a bit naughty at home. He is confused.
This probably doesn't help but might help understand what is going on. Also GS might feel power if he can engineer a rant to dad on the phone.

You have lots of advice already but I too wanted to say, from what you've told us it absolutely isn't you. Recording / writing down abusive calls is sound advice, but basically you're doing everything right & you mustn't worry about your grandson's behaviour if he's fine with you & at school.She could be being a drama queen over some minor cheekiness & trying to make you feel bad, or maybe it's just his reaction to the change of scene & she's over-reacting. Either way it's her, not you, your son or your grandson so just believe you're doing great, cos it sounds like you absolutely are.Hope things settle down with time,

Our family has experience of this with a bitter and twisted ex behaving in a terribly damaging way towards us and the children. The eldest son is frightened of his very loving father as the mother stopped dad seeing them for more than seven months, despite social work reports, court orders and the like. It has cost nearly £100k now to restore order and still she behaves in a disgusting way. She is hell bent on parental
Alienation and no amount of court orders will stop her. It’s incredibly sad. Few fathers have this sort of money and in fact, this has been put aside for the children’s future. We have many recordings of her awful abusive calls and the lies are endless. Even the other day we got an email from her solicitor making a lie that is provable. The cost in money is one thing, but the damage to the children is appalling. Why the courts allow mother’s to abuse children like this I will never know.

DS's ex often asks if our GD behaves well with him or reminds GD to be good. She is always well-behaved and is never any trouble.

Ex (who sounds like she is similar to your son's ex) also wonders if GD is unable to express herself freely when with DS.

It makes me wonder if GD is much more difficult when with Ex and her family... Perhaps your GS is the same.

She sounds bitter and twisted.

You know yourself you have done nothing wrong towards your grandson.

When she phones next and is abusive, politely say goodbye and
Put the phone down.

Try not to react. She wants a reaction from you, so don’t give her that opportunity.
If she wants to talk or discuss intelligently and rationally, then all well and good.

This is so difficult for you all and there’s lots of helpful
Advice on here. When your grandson is a man he will remember and appreciate that you never criticised his mother so you’re definitely doing the right thing by always being positive with regard to her. As others have said please keep a record of all critical remarks and phone calls, put the calls on speaker phone and record them. Have you read about ‘parental alienation’? Family courts take a very dim
View of this and your son may have a case for this is his ex tried to restrict access, that’s why records are so important. The other advice I have, although it’s easily said than done of course, is that you cannot change someone else you can only change the way you respond to them. The very best of luck to you all

Children are very smart & even at a young age they do realize
who is good & who is bad as they get older they have their own internal thoughts & decisions & know who loves them,keep doing as you are doing & just say how much you enjoy his company & how much you love him——- looking in the eyes of your grandchildren you see how they love you,it will take time,keep doing what your doing & support your son it must be very hard for him—— you sound lovely,good luck.

There is a possiblitiy that the child is rude when he goes back home, because he misses his father and you and resents having to go back and forth between his parents. Most children of divorced parents do resent this.

Whatever the truth of the mattter, I don't think you can do anything except what you are doing.

Next time the boy's mother phones and complains about his attitude on returning home to her, say politely that you are sorry to hear this, as he has never been like this with you, and that you therefore are at a loss to know how to help her solve this problem.

The child’s mother is clearly unhappy and now unhinged, being overly nasty, threatening and controlling with all parties.

Before she will ever concede to counseling or therapy for herself (*she is totally oblivious to how she is harming her son*) - I would advise what Oodles suggested and that is for the father to go to court and ask for a communication tool (in US called Court Wizard) where the mother’s statements and ravings can be monitored by court officials, if it’s that severe. Her words go on the record. The two parents will only be able to communicate via that method.

The court really is only interested in the welfare and safety of the child. It’s really between the two parents to work out, even if it means they go into counseling, with or without the child.

Adolescents who are exposed to this constant back and forth between parties grow up with emotional baggage, they turn into people pleasers or even think they are the cause of all this strife. So sad. It affects all of their future relationships.

One of my GD's used to be a nightmare when she came back from her dads home after a weekend.He and his new wife were adamant they did nothing to cause it...they didn't...the poor wee soul is/was suffering from seperation anxiety.She believed she was being punished by being taken away from her dad time and again.
She's much better now that she's mid teens but has the odd blip when she blames all thats wrong in her world on her mum.
My ex son in law slept with everyone in a skirt while he was married to my daughter and much as we all loved him we were right behind her leaving him and taking the kids.Your wee guy will adjust ,in time ,give him as much love as you can but dont spoil him ,thats counterproductive .My daughter and her new husband(we're 15 years down the line) have done everything they can to have a good relationship with her ex and his wife...and they are doing great.My daughter even counts the 2nd wife as a close friend .Good luck ,its not always easy to see whats going on and as in our case the none of it was the parent at fault..just a wee one missing her dad

She sounds totally thick to me

oodles

I believe that many estranged parents use some software, I've heard of my family wizard and communication between parents is done via this, messages can't be deleted so anything nasty is there on record. Obviously it means that both have to agree but I understand that it can be specified in court orders. No nasty phone calls or anything like that

Yes, this is the case but the court can only recommend their use and not insist on it. In my experience the court aren't interested in messages, but in whether the child feels safe and loved by both parents. It is the child (ren) caught up in this that the court are concerned about, and not the petty squabbling between the parents.

I believe that many estranged parents use some software, I've heard of my family wizard and communication between parents is done via this, messages can't be deleted so anything nasty is there on record. Obviously it means that both have to agree but I understand that it can be specified in court orders. No nasty phone calls or anything like that

Yes, I agree with the poster who said that your son should try to communicate with her in writing rather than on the phone, and to keep records. It does sound as though she's building up to suggesting that he should have less time with your grandson.
But don't forget that the family court judges are very experienced and are used to this sort of behaviour from parents who want total control of children and they should be able to see through her.
I'm guessing that your grandson doesn't particularly like going home after a nice day with you - you sound perfectly reasonable and go above and beyond to help to keep the peace with her if you can.
She may be fighting for more time with him but perhaps this is just because she wants to win, not because she actually wants to have more time with him and actually be a good mother.

Document all of her restrictions. Not being able to hug and kiss him is ridiculous. It’s just about as close as if you’re tickling or play-wrestling or you’re helping him dress, brush his teeth, tuck him in etc. I imagine she’s asking him if he has been hugged and kissed when he gets home. She must interrogate the poor kid! Does she call your son more than the one call he is allowed? Use the record option on the cell phone for all calls or don’t pick up so she leaves nasty messages that you can save AND transcribe for documentation if ever necessary. Does ex DIL have family members that she allows to kiss and hug her son? Be prepared for her to accuse your son of something…I definitely agree that your son see a therapist for best ways to cope. Big hug to you!!

You are doing a great job and sounds like your grandson is very happy on his visits.

Having had a very difficult ex who was constantly letting my girls down and telling lies and so on.

I started keeping a very brief diary on what was happening so when he said I wasn’t letting him see the girls I had it noted that I had told him weeks before that we had a family wedding to go to and he could have them the following weekend - he denied had told him bla bla bla

He would often phone up on the morning he was to have the girls and say he couldn’t see them (knowing I would have to cancel plans I had made)

I basically kept this diary in the event he ever said to the courts I was stopping him or making it awkward to see the girls

Caleo

Lisa, it's not you it's her being unable to accept the unhappy situation in which she finds herself. It must be terrible to be branded such a bad mother to her son that she cannot see the boy whenever she wants. She needs to express her feelings and is doing so in a self destructive way.

I hope she can get professional help with anger management.

I’m confused by this. Do you mean the grandson’s mother is ‘branded a bad mother’, and, if so, by whom? And what do you mean by her not being able to see her son when she wants? Doesn’t he live with her?

Lisa1234

No my son has his own home. CAO says he has GS every other weekend, phone call on alternate weekends. Two weeks holiday at summer and share Christmas. I can’t have GS out of these times as not in CAO, so I see him when son pops in on his weekend. I am just worn down now about his behaviour at home being our fault. I am questioning our values. Are we wrong? Is it having detrimental effect to his behaviour? What is it we are doing? That kind of thing starts rolling through my brain. I am wondering if we should be evaluated so a) I know my GS is getting the best from us and b) put my old and weary mind at ease.

This is called gaslighting Lisa. It happened to me and my son's ex tried to tell us our GC seems stressed after her visits with us. We just ignore her because she is very very insecure.
It does wear you down, and you start to doubt yourself because you are a decent peron who loves your grandson and she knows this. Unless the court has forbidden you to hug him I don't understand why you aren't, but Covid can be used as an excuse to mess with your head and heart as she is doing.
When people are on the receiving end of this abuse they often go for help with MH problems because you begin to believe it is you, and your fault.
I am telling you categorically it is not! It is the result of her deep insecurity and your strength.
Repeat this to yourself as often as you can and try as far as you can to get this toxic woman out of your head.
Just be a good granny to that child and he will love ans thank you for it.

Lisa1234

No my son has his own home. CAO says he has GS every other weekend, phone call on alternate weekends. Two weeks holiday at summer and share Christmas. I can’t have GS out of these times as not in CAO, so I see him when son pops in on his weekend. I am just worn down now about his behaviour at home being our fault. I am questioning our values. Are we wrong? Is it having detrimental effect to his behaviour? What is it we are doing? That kind of thing starts rolling through my brain. I am wondering if we should be evaluated so a) I know my GS is getting the best from us and b) put my old and weary mind at ease.

This is hardly any time at all and yet she dictates how it should be spent.. These court agreements should mean that your son, and you should be able to use your time exactly as you wish.. She is being completely unreasonable and controlling by telling you not to hug him.. Of course you should.. I would take very careful recordings and notes of all her abuse and demands.. and if you have any SW involved, or legal backup inform them of her behaviour.It does rather
sound as if she is jealous or insecure. I would have as little contact with her as possible but always be polite and respectful.. You sound like a very caring mum and GP

Just want to add how “normal” it is for exes to feel a little irked when their little ones go home and talk about the wonderful times they’ve had with the non residential parent. Hang on in there, great advice here, and keep doing what you’re doing!

Just want to thank you all for your input. Sometimes the remedy is just to talk and you guys have helped me immensely. Lots of ideas to take away. Thank you xxxx

I agree and we say to him ‘be a good boy for mummy’. Never ever negative.

Yeah I have said to my son maybe just communicate via text and emails. That way he has a digital footprint.

I have just had another thought on this thread.......could it be that when the child goes back to his mum he is full of joy about his visit and excitedly tells her and that family all about it - any child would, wouldn't they? And this gets her back up and she reacts in the only way she knows.

No my son has his own home. CAO says he has GS every other weekend, phone call on alternate weekends. Two weeks holiday at summer and share Christmas. I can’t have GS out of these times as not in CAO, so I see him when son pops in on his weekend. I am just worn down now about his behaviour at home being our fault. I am questioning our values. Are we wrong? Is it having detrimental effect to his behaviour? What is it we are doing? That kind of thing starts rolling through my brain. I am wondering if we should be evaluated so a) I know my GS is getting the best from us and b) put my old and weary mind at ease.