Taxing the rich to pay for the poor

growstuff

Norah

Elegran

Norah "Looks to me working people with working partners, between 30 and 49 would be financially ok to produce and raise a family and save, correct?"

You would have to ask a wide variety people of that age to be certain of the answer, in any specific case, as you would of people between 22 and 29 with a working partner and children It depends on how much that particular couple is earning - an average means that there are people earning more than that and less than that. Many women with families work part time, as childcare full time can absorb a large chunk of their wages.

The "average" person could be doing OK, while under the "average" graph line are others who are not.

Precisely. Half the people are above the average, half are not.

I didn't write the ONS stats, but understand. Half of the people in this country are above the average - and likely want a way as ISAs to save.

What about the other half? Don't they matter?

grow stuff Everyone matters. I never said otherwise.

I'm not sure how tax status of ISAs impacts people negatively.

I think work should be taxed, though I'd raise the personal allowance considerably. I think ISAs encourage savings, for good reason.

The figures from the ONS are median though. What you're describing is a mean average.

Doodledog

The figures from the ONS are median though. What you're describing is a mean average.

Sorry - that was to vegansrock

All this talk of ISA's constituting tax avoidance is just daft and pure deflection from the immoral measures employed by the big boys.

Also, good luck to anyone decamping to the USA if Labour gets in. My advice, just don't get ill and definitely don't have any underlying health issues (no matter how small) before you go.

flappergirl

All this talk of ISA's constituting tax avoidance is just daft and pure deflection from the immoral measures employed by the big boys.

Also, good luck to anyone decamping to the USA if Labour gets in. My advice, just don't get ill and definitely don't have any underlying health issues (no matter how small) before you go.

Course it is, for a start a government scheme cannot be tax avoidance (see the website) but blaming vulnerable people has become a National sport for some people. It's also scaremongering to suggest that there will be an exodus of wealthy people if they have to pay higher taxes. If we want better services, those of us who can afford to pay more will have to put our hands in our pockets. It's the governments job to run things efficiently but clearly over the past 14 years they have mismanaged pretty much every area of public life. If anyone disagrees, please tell me just one area that is working well because ATM I cannot think of one.

vegansrock

Some people don’t understand statistics. Averages aren’t the middle - that’s the median. Average income are all incomes added up divided by the number of people - it doesn’t necessarily divide into equal halves above/ below. A simple example most people have 2 legs , a few people have one leg, and a few no legs, so the average number of legs is less than 2, but far more people have 2 legs than those with fewer than 2., they aren’t equal categories. I’m not sure if I’ve explained that very well but those who say half are above average, half below are wrong.

You are absolutely correct

For the record, I never pay cash to tradespeople, apart from the immorality and illegality of doing so, I want all tradespeople I employ to provide guarantees along with their receipts.

Germanshepherdsmum

I don’t think you should apply to be the next Chancellor, though I’m sure high earners would be delighted to only pay 20% tax.

This really made me giggle!

flappergirl

All this talk of ISA's constituting tax avoidance is just daft and pure deflection from the immoral measures employed by the big boys.

Also, good luck to anyone decamping to the USA if Labour gets in. My advice, just don't get ill and definitely don't have any underlying health issues (no matter how small) before you go.

We lived in California for a year when I was 14, my cousin and his family live there still. The cost of healthcare is horrendous, and insurance is also steep and often doesn’t cover aftercare and ongoing medication.

I would never wish to have a model such as this.

Where are all these disgruntled people off to live if the LP is successful in forming a govt? Not any EU country methinks!

They won't go anywhere. Whatever people say about this country, they know which side their bread is buttered.

HousePlantQueen

For the record, I never pay cash to tradespeople, apart from the immorality and illegality of doing so, I want all tradespeople I employ to provide guarantees along with their receipts.

Would you expect a receipt and guarantee from a cleaner, window cleaner or gardener?

It’s not illegal to pay in cash - illegality only arises if the payee falls to declare the payment.

I’ve dipped in and out of the leaders debate this evening, and suspect that moderate Tories will have been reassured listening to Starmer.

I felt sorry for Sunak who seemed totally defeated.

Cossy

flappergirl

All this talk of ISA's constituting tax avoidance is just daft and pure deflection from the immoral measures employed by the big boys.

Also, good luck to anyone decamping to the USA if Labour gets in. My advice, just don't get ill and definitely don't have any underlying health issues (no matter how small) before you go.

We lived in California for a year when I was 14, my cousin and his family live there still. The cost of healthcare is horrendous, and insurance is also steep and often doesn’t cover aftercare and ongoing medication.

I would never wish to have a model such as this.

Where are all these disgruntled people off to live if the LP is successful in forming a govt? Not any EU country methinks!

My American friend's health insurance (pretty comprehensive) stipulated that for his particular disease, one scan (CAT scan) per 6-month period was allowed, at a particular point in the condition.

His consultant /surgeon wanted to do an 'exploratory' scan in between because he suspected some tumour growth. The insurers refused to cover it. My friend had to get his consultant to write a letter outlining why he believed it necessary, which involved phone calls and admin... just what you need when you are undergoing chemo for cancer...

It was still refused so my friend had to pay 'out-of-pocket'.

I thought about this when I had a second cancer diagnosis, my own NHS consultant wanted to do a similar scan because of blood test results and cancer marker numbers increasing. So, he just ordered the scan, which showed thickening of the bowel wall. And another tumour was discovered and operated on.

I cannot imagine going through such hassle when you are already stressed with one cancer diagnosis and the possibility of another - having to argue back and forth and fill up your ring binder with emails and bills, etc.

Private health insurance, however good it is, has limitations. I hope those who want it are aware of this.

Germanshepherdsmum

Do you realise how much tax revenue your brilliant plan would lose the Treasury GrannyRose? How would you make up the massive shortfall?

Actually there are lots of reasons why some economists believe that a flat rate tax would bring in as much or even more money than our present complicated system. Increasing incentives to work and decreasing the cost of collecting tax are two of them.

Whitewavemark2

I’ve dipped in and out of the leaders debate this evening, and suspect that moderate Tories will have been reassured listening to Starmer.

I felt sorry for Sunak who seemed totally defeated.

Sunak knew he couldn’t win from the start, the rise of Reform made that more distant, however he believes the did what was needed after the Truss debacle
He is determined to go down fighting and I give him credit for that, he has made several mistakes and now is a lame duck. After the election I dont expect him to stay in politics for long, he will depart the UK for pastures new, like most politicians he has ended up a failure.

Yes, and I am surprised at the number of Tory MPs already lining up as fancying their chances as leader.

Of course they may not all get voted back in so we shall see.

Health care in the US is shockingly expensive and has poor outcomes. 66% of bankruptcies are medical costs related. The Affordable health care act (Obamacare) has helped poorer people but is still despised by lots of Republicans! Trump succeeded in weakening the act but did not get it repealed.

GrannyRose15

Germanshepherdsmum

Do you realise how much tax revenue your brilliant plan would lose the Treasury GrannyRose? How would you make up the massive shortfall?

Actually there are lots of reasons why some economists believe that a flat rate tax would bring in as much or even more money than our present complicated system. Increasing incentives to work and decreasing the cost of collecting tax are two of them.

But not a flat rate of 20%! That would incentivise nobody who is unemployed to work as it is the current basic rate. And how could a rate of 20% possibly bring in ‘as much or even more money’? You’re not Kwasi Kwarteng in disguise are you?

Any taxation system has to be viewed in the round, currently the wealthy ( over £1m) have many ways they can avoid paying tax. The tax on wages is high enough, taxation of capital needs to be increased, the downside is that will affect private pensions and inheritance.

Poppyred

Making tax avoidance illegal would be a good start!

Do you mean tax avoidance or tax evasion?

Germanshepherdsmum

HousePlantQueen

For the record, I never pay cash to tradespeople, apart from the immorality and illegality of doing so, I want all tradespeople I employ to provide guarantees along with their receipts.

Would you expect a receipt and guarantee from a cleaner, window cleaner or gardener?

It’s not illegal to pay in cash - illegality only arises if the payee falls to declare the payment.

Yes I do expect proof of payments now, especially as my last window cleaner tried to rip me off.

What are these ‘many ways’ to avoid ‘paying tax’ (which tax?) if you have over £1m? Btw a quite ordinary house in the SE and in parts of north Norfolk, where I live, and many other places will cost well over £1m.

Taxation of capital? Way to disincentivise prudent workers and savers.

Ain’t it just?

Germanshepherdsmum

What are these ‘many ways’ to avoid ‘paying tax’ (which tax?) if you have over £1m? Btw a quite ordinary house in the SE and in parts of north Norfolk, where I live, and many other places will cost well over £1m.

OK here’s a few, Gifting, there is no limit if you live 7 yrs, transfer of business interests, allowing use of assets free.
A child of a wealthy person has an enormous advantage because daddy will guarantee any loan.