Justice in the UK for Trafficking/fraud/mi sogyny etc

Yes it is. For too long Telegram has been a "safe" place for criminals where they have exercised their right to freedom of speech and used it to do all kinds of crime.

I don't have a Telegram account, but I have seen screenshots of other people's accounts, so I know there are drugs, weapons and passports sold there- and that's only a part.

Good to hear of someone going after a platform CEO, 00opsidia.

Yes I used to use Twitter but not X.

I see that Telegram CEO Pavel Durov has been charged by French prosecutors with enabling various forms of criminality in the app. So maybe there is hope that bosses of other online platfoms can be more transparent. The many criminals who use Telegam have been seduced into believing they had free speech, when its not existed for quite some time. All kinds of proof would be found if the authorities looked.

But Pavel is prosecuted because he refused to comply with criminal investigations (regardless whether the investigation is warranted or not). So if other platforms allow authorities to access data, they wouldn't get the same treatment.

I dont know the answer to the last question, but a solicitor is willing to work for free to help the trafficked and abused girls.

Wyllow3

Just to say it was hard to open the O/P web ref, here it is for easy access
www.crowdjustice.com/case/hold-andrew-tate-accountable/

Thanks for this link Wyllow3 and thank you to 00opsidia for the original post. I will support this crowd funder because although it is a small drop in a huge pool of misogyny, at least it is something.

If only X would follow the route Apple took last year

www.theguardian.com/news/2023/sep/22/apple-criticised-for-hosting-app-created-by-andrew-tate#:~:text=Tate%20created%20the%20app%2C%20Real,as%20misogynistic%2C%20to%20go%20viral.

Question - if Tate was in the UK, would there be enough evidence to charge him with online hate offences, or could he hide behind their international origin?

Net Nanny was very crude, I remember!

Yes, these days there are accomplished hackers, unfortunately.

What I dont know - someone here might? Is whether a country can intervene and block or make illegal. From my limited reading I know they will act on child porn, but not sure how its carried through.

Governments can block websites, but it is (apparently) easy to get around that by using VPNs and proxy browser extensions. Countries like China bar access to large areas and follow up with very punitive sanctions for those who find ways to access them. Our government could do the same, but would have to ramp up surveillance, which would be unpopular and intrusive.

I remember in the early 90s when my children were small - we put a 'net nanny' on the family PC to protect them, but it was a very blunt instrument. The joke was that you couldn't look up The Sound of Music because of Dick Van Dyke . We (the UK population) would be down to that level of censorship unless we wanted to pay huge amounts for more policing and software, and it would always be a battle of wits with pornographers and the like, who do have spare money to circumvent policing.

Allsorts

Why with all the technology we have, can’t the internet ban these people and pornography and abuse? Whats this dark web where they go and why cant it just be removed? Tate and his ilk should be castrated whilst in prison abroad, hope they don't come back here..

They're not in prison, one of them is under house arrest, but I don't know how long for. The investigations about the Trafficking are still going on in Romania. (If someone has enough money they can afford the top lawyers). Most "normal" people who were suspected of Trafficking would be in jail by now, but Romanian prisons are not like English ones...

There is evidence but I don't know if it's enough. I think the problem with detecting trafficking might be that they use "The lover boy method", so initial messages would be like boyfriend and girlfriend. Then the girl wouldn't know until it was too late that she had been trafficked.

Sure, they have friends in high places, which makes everything harder.

Tate posts on X (which used to be twitter) run by Elon Musk. As a "host" he could, but won't, ban Tate.

Tate also hosts his own website. In addition he has an App Store hosted by ?? I'm not sure.

What I dont know - someone here might? Is whether a country can intervene and block or make illegal. From my limited reading I know they will act on child porn, but not sure how its carried through.

Who would ban those things, Allsorts? The internet is global, and policing it is impossible. Nobody can remove the dark web - by definition it happens out of sight, a bit like the 'black economy'.

I would shed no tears if AT met with a reproductive accident in jail, but in conscience couldn't support castration as a punitive sanction .

Why with all the technology we have, can’t the internet ban these people and pornography and abuse? Whats this dark web where they go and why cant it just be removed? Tate and his ilk should be castrated whilst in prison abroad, hope they don't come back here..

Esmay

Namsnanny,
Not frivolous , but dismissive of the OP's opinion and worthy cause .
I also feel strongly about the subject having witnessed and then supported the victims of the worst kind of misogyny .

Thankyou for your support Esmay

I feel strongly that there's enough against women without women being against each other.

How terrifying and humiliatingly dreadful it must be to be an underage teenager, tricked and trafficked, beaten and forced to "perform" on a web cam. I think they (and anyone who has been trafficked) deserve all the help and support they can get.

Esmay

Namsnanny,
Not frivolous , but dismissive of the OP's opinion and worthy cause .
I also feel strongly about the subject having witnessed and then supported the victims of the worst kind of misogyny .

It's good to know we are all on the ball in our own way.
Let's hope it makes a difference.

Just to say it was hard to open the O/P web ref, here it is for easy access
www.crowdjustice.com/case/hold-andrew-tate-accountable/

Namsnanny,
Not frivolous , but dismissive of the OP's opinion and worthy cause .
I also feel strongly about the subject having witnessed and then supported the victims of the worst kind of misogyny .

Todays (29th) Guardian has an incisive article by Frances Ryan in the Opinion section regarding femicide and the avalanche of male violence, particularly through this year, and the never-ending litany of murder after murder after murder of women (and children).

Just trying to get a full picture of the situation but its difficult.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyglgy8j3eo

It looks as if he is being held under house arrest for recent charges in Romania and the situation as regards extradition is that these charges/any sentence have to be in court and if convicted served out before extradition.

But these charges don't appear to relate to online hate crimes

and it's through these that Tate has so much influence and become a cult figure, and X won't ban him.
I'd hope we could extradite him for the online crimes against women.

Well, I would advise you to become a little more discerning when reading, as my comments had nothing to do with trafficking, as it was very clear to see.

You don't have to solve the worlds problems.

My point was looking at other countries ways of addressing this problem may help in looking how we go forward.

No doubt I am not putting my point correctly, as you seem not to understand what I mean?

Compassion?

That comes from all kinds of people, and is shown in all kinds of ways.

Namsnanny

I think I am too Esmay

Did you think I was being frivolous? I can assure you I'm not.

Quite the contrary. I find the subject so serious that I fear if we don't attempt to look at it clearly and thoroughly it will only get worse.

I have many many opinions about what is happening and where it may lead.

Too many to put here. I support many many organizations who do good work.

We must look at all sides and of the problem, if we are serious about finding a solution.

I just don't think a one stop shop is the answer.

I repeat I do think my points are important, and I am serious in my replies.

00opsidia

Anyone who wants to make a joke of that must have no empathy or understanding of what trafficking is

If this is aimed at me because I said the following

You've left out Breixt HPQ that must be one of the factors surely? (joke)

It is disingenuous of you to anonymously accuse me of a lack of understanding or empathy.

I recognise this is the verbal style people often use to attack those who don't agree completely with them these days.

We are all expected to fall into line with some points of view.

Whilst I join you in agreeing the plight of trafficked people especially children, is horrendous, and we should all try to do our best to stop it.

It doesn't follow that I put much faith in the solution you have put forward, and I have in some small way explained why.

I'm shocked you feel able to joke on a thread which is about young girls being trafficked.

Believe it or not, I was making one specific point. I cannot possibly solve the world's issues, but I can highlight some of them and try to help. I don't bite off more than I can chew and I won't pretend I can solve the world's problems when I can't.

Good for you that you do help in other places. I'm sure many caring people do. I just thought some of them might grab some compassion for these girls in particular who are under our noses in our country.

Skydancer

DH and I have been asking ourselves lately what kind of a world do we now live in? We don't recognise it as the same one we grew up in.

True.

Things lots of things have changed.

My guess is an awful lot of the changes have contributed, but it is going to be very hard to find out exactly what will help move things to a better place.

00opsidia

Namsnanny

00opsidia

And yes, we can all find problems abroad but why oh why is it more attractive to do that while turning a blind eye to the suffering of our own?

Misogynistic teachings have caused problems everywhere but we cannot help everyone all at once so there needs to be a focus in order to make a difference and this is mine.

you don't understand.

Other countries have experiences and resolutions that we can learn from.

I just don't think it is productive to find the easiest target and look no further.

Of course you can ignore other opinions that is your choice.

No, you don't understand.

I have stated my point in plain English.

I do not think AT is the easiest target. That is why as women we should stand together against trafficking. You have made it clear you won't support these poor trafficked young women.

Do you know, AT IS in another country right now? (where he has also damaged females). You could try doing some research about other countries.

If I wanted to make a post about other countries, I would , but I was pretty specific on this for a reason.

I look forwards to hearing how you would make the world a better place for all women!

other countries have experiences and resolutions we can learn from

Is it wrong to learn about a subject?

Why do you continue to think I know nothing about AT.

I think I am too Esmay

Did you think I was being frivolous? I can assure you I'm not.

Quite the contrary. I find the subject so serious that I fear if we don't attempt to look at it clearly and thoroughly it will only get worse.

I have many many opinions about what is happening and where it may lead.

Too many to put here. I support many many organizations who do good work.

We must look at all sides and of the problem, if we are serious about finding a solution.

I just don't think a one stop shop is the answer.

I repeat I do think my points are important, and I am serious in my replies.

00opsidia

Anyone who wants to make a joke of that must have no empathy or understanding of what trafficking is

If this is aimed at me because I said the following

You've left out Breixt HPQ that must be one of the factors surely? (joke)

It is disingenuous of you to anonymously accuse me of a lack of understanding or empathy.

I recognise this is the verbal style people often use to attack those who don't agree completely with them these days.

We are all expected to fall into line with some points of view.

Whilst I join you in agreeing the plight of trafficked people especially children, is horrendous, and we should all try to do our best to stop it.

It doesn't follow that I put much faith in the solution you have put forward, and I have in some small way explained why.

Namsnanny

00opsidia

And yes, we can all find problems abroad but why oh why is it more attractive to do that while turning a blind eye to the suffering of our own?

Misogynistic teachings have caused problems everywhere but we cannot help everyone all at once so there needs to be a focus in order to make a difference and this is mine.

you don't understand.

Other countries have experiences and resolutions that we can learn from.

I just don't think it is productive to find the easiest target and look no further.

Of course you can ignore other opinions that is your choice.

No, you don't understand.

I have stated my point in plain English.

I do not think AT is the easiest target. That is why as women we should stand together against trafficking. You have made it clear you won't support these poor trafficked young women.

Do you know, AT IS in another country right now? (where he has also damaged females). You could try doing some research about other countries.

If I wanted to make a post about other countries, I would , but I was pretty specific on this for a reason.

I look forwards to hearing how you would make the world a better place for all women!

Who else should we be focussing on Namsnannyas well as Tate, to keep women safe and our young men given better role models?

Tate isnt an easy target at all, if he was we'd have been rid of his dangerous and pernicious influence some time ago.

GG13, each to their own of course, but vulgar racism and misogyny isn't my idea of entertainment. The fact that Jim Davidson is reduced to an end of the pier show in Skegness illustrates that thankfully, I am not alone in this