More deprivations perhaps 😏

kittylester

Don't let the snidey people get to you Kate. Your contributions as valid as anyone else's.

This.

They are penalising us for being old. It wouldn't be so bad if the money saved was used for the benefit of our country, but they are giving so much away to other countries. Is this what they mean when they talk about 'an equal society'?

The thing is, pensions are already means-tested. If you’ve paid into an occupational pension which pays above £12500 or whatever, you pay 20% of it back, and if you have over £50k or so you pay back 40% of it. Because you have worked. If you don’t work you get free Pension Credit free of tax, and if you don’t work but pay the voluntary contribution but of NI (far less than the full rate) you get the full pension free of tax, too. It’s the workers who lose out every time.

The system is not set up to encourage people to work, and it has left us in a position where the balance between the economically active and inactive is such that those who do pay in could end up losing even more.

I can’t see means-testing or scrapping of the SP happening for a long time, though, or at any rate having an impact any time soon, as those already receiving pensions will have to continue on them, and anyone within ten years or so of retirement will need time to prepare. I can, however, see a future generation being told that they have to pay into a retirement plan of some kind (probably through their workplace) and the universal SP being phased out for those who don’t qualify for subsidised contributions.

The problem then will be what to do with those who have made no provision. I hate to think that any future government would allow people to starve, but how do we incentivise work if there is provision for those who refuse?

There is also the problem that any system that is designed to penalise those who don’t work shifts the balance of power between employers and workers to a dangerous place, so the emphasis has to be on encouraging fair contributions, rather than penalties for opting out. But then we’re back to where we started, with some getting a free ride and others paying for both themselves and others .

It’s not easy, is it?

Thanks Kitty 👍

Don't let the snidey people get to you Kate. Your contributions as valid as anyone else's.

Thank you Cossy and Doodledog. 👍

NanKate

If this thread of mine has caused upset to anyone I apologise, however if I ever mention anything which has a political leaning, I find I get snidey remarks from a ‘few’ people. I will not be starting or contributing to anything of this nature again.

Please don’t stop contributing. It was a question and something someone close to you told you might happen.

We can all share things here which worry us and should be able to do so without judgement or ridicule.

Jaxjacky

Does your friend know the lottery numbers for Saturday please?

Hahaha

Don't worry, NanKate. There are always threads about things that will never happen, or that might happen but not yet. It does no harm to debate the rights and wrongs of the principles behind them, though.

If this thread of mine has caused upset to anyone I apologise, however if I ever mention anything which has a political leaning, I find I get snidey remarks from a ‘few’ people. I will not be starting or contributing to anything of this nature again.

It would be yet another way to discourage people from bothering with a works pension and relying on the state one instead. If income from all sources was taken into account it would cost a fortune to administrate, and in any case the fabled millionaire pensioners probably don't use public transport much anyway.

^More sensible for who?
It’s how older pensioners like my Mum get about so much to browse shops and meet friends.It’s designed for just that reason, for older people to stay mobile and out of their houses.^

A nominal £10 or £20 to save such a lot in bus fares seems reasonable.

Ziplok

Not everyone who has an occupational pension has a large occupational pension, though.

I would assume the adjustment would be based on total income from all sources, and tapered.

Just as the withdrawal of WFA should have been but wasn't - ah - there is the problem, knowing the current lot, we would end up with another clumsy all or nothing cut.

NonGrannyMoll

The bus passes rumour was going around here a couple of years ago - the Tories were going to do it, apparently. Whenever there's a change in the ruling party, the new blokes can rush the painful stuff through that the outgoing mob were contemplating - that way, the old mob can be blamed. It's all about money and finger-pointing.

You’re just as cynical as me😁

kittylester

I think a more sensible thing to do with bus passes is to charge a small, annual fee for one.

More sensible for who?
It’s how older pensioners like my Mum get about so much to browse shops and meet friends.It’s designed for just that reason, for older people to stay mobile and out of their houses.

NanKate

I have no idea where my friend got this information. Maybe it is just supposition on her part. I am only relating what she said.

It might have been a good idea to find out where your friend got her “information” before starting a thread on here?

Does she not understand how many pensioners vote Conservative?

news.sky.com/story/tories-will-consider-means-testing-pensions-triple-lock-kemi-badenoch-says-13290398
Kemi Badenoch is also after the triple lock and she is considering means testing it.
She went on to say that although the the triple lock was a Conservative policy, "we've got to give something to the next generation".

The bus passes rumour was going around here a couple of years ago - the Tories were going to do it, apparently. Whenever there's a change in the ruling party, the new blokes can rush the painful stuff through that the outgoing mob were contemplating - that way, the old mob can be blamed. It's all about money and finger-pointing.

They certainly don’t. They can be a pittance. I imagine the occupational pensions of those who have worked in local government, teaching and the NHS their whole careers can be very good. Others are much less fortunate.

Not everyone who has an occupational pension has a large occupational pension, though.

LOUISA1523

M0nica

I would be quite happy to see the pension rise tied to the rises in wages only.

I felt very uncomfortable when wages were stagnant or fslling to get bigger rises because of inflation. I fht erst of the population suffer, why shouldn't we?

I'm guessing you have a private pension and your own property in addition to state pension ??......I don't know how any one survives on state pension alone and not be miserable .....UK state pension is one of the lowest in first world countries .....the working population are generally fitter than those of pension age...they are generally able to get promotions or work overtime to boost their income....I can't understand why you feel uncomfortable, unless you have a good amount of private pension.....but many don't....there are charities you can donate to to help struggling pensioners

LOUISA1523 You are reading into my post far more than was in it. I talked merely about increases in the pension. I said nothing about Pension Credit. The way to make sure that poorer pensioners get the full rise they need to live comfortably is through increasing Pension Credit.

But like it or not the number of old people in this country - and every other country is growing rapidly and the birth rate is declining - and has been for decades and the number of people in the working population available to pay the taxes needed to fund our pensions - andthe NHS - and the care we may need is growing less and less and they have their own old age to save for, like it or not, sooner or later, adjustments will have to be made

If those adjustments mean that those with occupational pensions like me receive less state pension, but the living standards of those who are dependent on the state pension are protected. I really cannot see the problem.

I only got my pension last year and able to get a bit of pension credit plus I get my PIP both parts . I own my own bungalow but haven't much in savings . But I have always been careful with money . So I mange on my 4 weekly payments.

I live in the north west and here men and women once 60 get a free bus / local train pass. I was 61 when I moved here and has given me the freedom without worrying about cost . Changed it to a disabled one when I was 66 so I can use in anytime day or night all week. But outside my county it is subject to the rules of free bus pass for pensioners in England and Wales .

I don't know about paying yearly for my bus pass . It took me 35 years to get disability benefits and was still turned down even when finally had my diagnosis at 63 but the rotters at PIP gave me zero on everything but got it at tribunal. Took over a year to get there but had back pay.

I pay for my blue badge and have had one since 1988 when it was orange . I don't drive . Plus I pay for my Access card and my train travel pass which gives my third off rail fares. So I think I pay enough for things .

I don't smoke or drink or holiday abroad . Last year finally able to have my first holiday for 19 years infact had 2 just Monday to Friday.

Good idea Kitty

The LBC presenter last night was loudly very anti the triple lock, whipping up people. I don`t think triple lock will last, also Kemi is thinking it should be closed down and/or means tested

It won`t affect the old state pension much as we get very little in the way of increases.