EHRC suggestion on toilet facilities

NittWitt

^As far as the danger of a man pushing a woman into a cubicle and assaulting her, honestly it would never have occurred to me.^

That's exactly what transwoman Katie Dolatowski did, twice, to young girls aged 10 & 12 in two supermarket toilets.

There are a number of reports when you google about assaults on women/girls in supermarket ladies toilets when all was quiet- its a male thing (and that of course includes aggressive men calling themselves trans) and all we can do is find ways of protecting possible victims.

We have to address male violence against women broadly not just lay it on the shoulders of one group.

had you had no time to use the ladies on the station, you would then have had to use the unisex facilities on the train - and those have always, in my memory been unisex, no matter how far you go back.

M0nica don't you understand the difference between a unisex loo which is used by one person at a time, as on the train, and a unisex loo with several cubicles and a shared sinks area as in most public toilets?

As far as the danger of a man pushing a woman into a cubicle and assaulting her, honestly it would never have occurred to me.

That's exactly what transwoman Katie Dolatowski did, twice, to young girls aged 10 & 12 in two supermarket toilets.

Aveline

OMG Mt61. I hope that sort of thing was stamped out at once. Just the sort of thing we don't want.

The guy was arrested. The saunas also became mixed. I used to love a sauna on my day off. Certain days for men, certain days for women but all mixed now 😩

OMG Mt61. I hope that sort of thing was stamped out at once. Just the sort of thing we don't want.

David49

I was really surprised when the local leisure centre changed to mixed changing rooms, loud protests, they very quickly sectioned off an area for women only.

Our local sports centre changing room is mixed, “ changing village”, been once, never again. First week it opened, there was a bloke taking photos of young girls in the next cubicle 😩

David49

I was really surprised when the local leisure centre changed to mixed changing rooms, loud protests, they very quickly sectioned off an area for women only.

Our local swimming pool has mixed changing rooms.

I still prefer going into the old ‘Ladies’ side, which is a bit daft, but the ‘Mens’ side just doesn’t feel right.

Obviously it’s lockable cubicles, not open plan changing.

Rightly so, IMO. Leisure centres are usually ‘sports’ centres anyway and as such are used to riding roughshod over the wishes of the population who pay for them. We have a new one in my town, and whilst it was billed as a leisure centre there is virtually nothing other than an expensive cafe that isn’t sport-based, and we have lost various community spaces to pay for it. People complained at the time, but as ever we were ignored - it doesn’t surprise me that the blinkered people in charge can’t see past their own needs to consider those of others. I’m pleased that ‘people power’ (which includes women) prevailed in your case.

I was really surprised when the local leisure centre changed to mixed changing rooms, loud protests, they very quickly sectioned off an area for women only.

Yes, that is a good model, BlueBelle, but it’s not always possible to achieve. If it became mandatory to provide numerous options a lot of places would have to close. At some point there has to be compromise, and IMO the idea of not having female toilets should not be an option that comes before not having separate ‘trans’ ones. Convert the Gents to ‘gender neutral’ if necessary? I have never known that to happen but forcing women to accommodate men in our loos is relatively common.

Our local library just has toilets no name given to them just four separate lockable rooms on an open landing so it would be impossible for a man to attack a woman as they aren’t ‘in’
anywhere if that makes sense Maybe that’s the way to go

I suppose that is a difference between countries. Nothing here is what I would call ‘old’. Something I actually miss a lot.

nanna8

Doesn’t that already happen,though? I can’t think of any public facilities that don’t have unisex toilets as well as male and female. Not round here, anyway.

No, it doesn’t happen in older buildings which would require complex plumbing arrangements. In some cases (eg older universities) it’s taken ages to get women’s toilets, never mind extra ones for various genders.

New buildings do tend to have more modern arrangements but it would be a mammoth task to include ’gender’-based facilities across the piece. I don’t see the need, really. If you can pee standing up, use the urinals, if not, use a cubicle- but in either case use the one particular to your sex.

More the better, really. I mean individual ones.

Doesn’t that already happen,though? I can’t think of any public facilities that don’t have unisex toilets as well as male and female. Not round here, anyway.

grumppa

Separate toilet facilities for trans people sounds a good idea, but if I were a trans woman, would I be happy to share with a trans man? Bundling the two together seems a bit discriminatory.

I dont think it being suggested there are "trans" toilets but unisex toilets which means anyone.

Thought that all along that they should have their own cubicle/s-I am sure some trans people don’t have the confidence to walk into a female/male loos anyway.

Tbh I wouldn’t use a ladies in a place I was uncomfortable.
I grew accustomed to one toilet or a few, lockable cubicles used by whomever when we travelled in Europe, no problem as in bars, hotels and public buildings.

Separate toilet facilities for trans people sounds a good idea, but if I were a trans woman, would I be happy to share with a trans man? Bundling the two together seems a bit discriminatory.

Romola

Well, Monica I think I would feel pretty safe in the Wallace collection in broad daylight, in whatever style of facility
Alone on a railway station late at night, as I was this week after the theatre, then I would definitely have wanted the female facilities to be for biological women only.

Romula I would always want the female facilities to be for women only, but that is not what we are discussing.

had you had no time to use the ladies on the station, you would then have had to use the unisex facilities on the train - and those have always, in my memory been unisex, no matter how far you go back.

Frankly I don't know why I bother
Maybe I won't any more.

It's a no to mixed sex changing rooms though.

There are plenty of places which have unisex individual cubicles, some have a sink incorporated some have communal sink.
Many NT properties have nice unisex with washbasins

Romola

Well, Monica I think I would feel pretty safe in the Wallace collection in broad daylight, in whatever style of facility
Alone on a railway station late at night, as I was this week after the theatre, then I would definitely have wanted the female facilities to be for biological women only.

That's exactly mu point. We can all cite examples of facilities that are safe, clean and acceptable, but there are others which just aren't. That has nothing to do with TW - I remember being warned by my mother not to use the toilets in the local park when I was a child, as 'bad men' (flashers, I assume) sometimes hung around them. The reason single sex ones are intrinsically safer is that men in there stand out as out of place, but obviously in a mixed-sex facility they have a reason to be there, whether they are up to no good or not.

Well, Monica I think I would feel pretty safe in the Wallace collection in broad daylight, in whatever style of facility
Alone on a railway station late at night, as I was this week after the theatre, then I would definitely have wanted the female facilities to be for biological women only.