EHRC suggestion on toilet facilities

I quite understand stand how others feel on this topic but I am also taking into account how others feel in the situation and how I myself feel. The problem we have are spaces that don't suit everyone and people have shared how those spaces were unsafe to them or loved ones. So having a solution that suits every scenario and personal need seems a good approach.

with a friend or even a significant other for safety.

Well that's an own goal Luminance! If we didn't have any men in the ladies toilets even the ones in a dress and high heels we wouldn't need to have anyone for safety because women, without men are generally perfectly safe.

Luminance

Well you may speak for yourself Doodledog but a space that allows others their comfort whatever that may mean seems sensible to me. Especially for parents and children who are old enough to go alone but perhaps not always safe to do so.

You can't speak for others, Luminance. I can, however, speak for myself, as you rightly say, and that is what I am doing.

I Do Not Want To Need A Significant Other To Accompany Me To The Lavatory. I am An Adult Human Female, And Prefer To Be Independent.

Well you may speak for yourself Doodledog but a space that allows others their comfort whatever that may mean seems sensible to me. Especially for parents and children who are old enough to go alone but perhaps not always safe to do so.

👍 Doodledog it really isn't difficult.

Luminance

Perhaps a small room with a single cubicle inside it would work well for young families as well as meaning a toilet can be shared with a friend or even a significant other for safety.

No. Women don't want a return to the days of needing significant others to protect us. We just want single-sex spaces. It's not difficult.

Perhaps a small room with a single cubicle inside it would work well for young families as well as meaning a toilet can be shared with a friend or even a significant other for safety.

Yes to all those reasons Doodledog.

At the Motorway services facilities you often see mums dealing with one child whilst Grandma or another female holds onto another child/children until mum deals with each one, then the adults take it in turns.

I can hear from some who won’t understand, cries of “Why not wait outside with them?” If a child/children and an adult don’t want to go, that makes sense.
But children are notorious for not wanting to need the toilet until they realise they’re missing out on the opportunity. Much easier to have them all in one place while you take it in turns. Also sinks are far less inviting to run away to than shop spaces when you’re trying to look after small, or even older children.

62Granny

I think we need to get away from toilets having a communal area with hand basins, toilets should be a complete unit with a toilet and sink behind each door. A lot of chain restaurants have this system now and tbh it is usually easier. I can never fathom why " ladies" seem to take so long and there is always a huge queue for the ladies.

It's for the very reasons we want single sex spaces. Women have to undress to use the loo, and obviously put things back to rights again. We often have to deal with periods and that takes time. Women are more likely than men to have small children with them, and so on. It's not that we dawdle - in my experience very few women take the paper or crossword in with them

I've never understood toilets as a social hang out. It's just not hygienic and the awful things you can catch, including worms. Go, wash hands thoroughly and try to leave without touching anything. Perhaps at a loud venue it makes sense but surely having quiet rooms in those would be rather superior?

Aveline

I like Ladies rooms as they are. The rows of sinks and mirrors and sometimes chairs can be companionable. Not always of course but I'd be loth to lose these because a tiny minority of men want to pretend to be female.

Indeed.
The actions of a few men seem likely to spoil benefits women have enjoyed.
The changes are necessary because of those men, and they still won’t guarantee safety from ill-intentioned males who will lie their way into female spaces just to show that they can.

I like Ladies rooms as they are. The rows of sinks and mirrors and sometimes chairs can be companionable. Not always of course but I'd be loth to lose these because a tiny minority of men want to pretend to be female.

I think we need to get away from toilets having a communal area with hand basins, toilets should be a complete unit with a toilet and sink behind each door. A lot of chain restaurants have this system now and tbh it is usually easier. I can never fathom why " ladies" seem to take so long and there is always a huge queue for the ladies.

JaneJudge

I think non gender specific, seperate cubicles with a wash hand basin are useful to MOST people, whoever they are - including those with disabilities. Maybe it should be a consdieration when building and improving commercial facilities including within health and education

Certainly would be the ideal. Age, sex, disability status all catered for would open up many opportunities for people. Even something as simple as taking my late mother to dinner could be difficult without aids to use the bathroom.

I acknowledge that doodledog, especially in older buildings

I think it will be something that is considered in new buildings (or even become mandatory), but in existing ones, which will be a massive majority, it is far from being the universal solution that is so often suggested.

I think non gender specific, seperate cubicles with a wash hand basin are useful to MOST people, whoever they are - including those with disabilities. Maybe it should be a consdieration when building and improving commercial facilities including within health and education

I’m sure we are all sorry for those who have experienced events like those mentioned by Nanato3 and Doodledog and those I know from my own experience.

It makes it clear that, as Doodledog says,
The only way to stop this sort of thing is to have a strict 'women only' policy in female spaces,

Unfortunately males who lie that they are women will still attempt to break the rule, ignoring the fact that doing so shows even more clearly that they are not to be trusted.

Facilities like that are never safe. I am truly sorry for those who have experienced such an awful thing for themselves or a loved one.

I'm so sorry to read that, Nanato3.

A good friend of mine was attacked and sexually assaulted in the Ladies years ago when we were students. She had left the crowded bar to use the loo, which was through a door and along a corridor at the back, and a man followed her and attacked her.

Luckily, a member of staff saw him go after her and intervened, so the assault stopped short of rape or worse, but it was horrible. Had the barman been used to seeing males in women's spaces that intervention may very well not have happened, and I dread to think what the result might have been.

The only way to stop this sort of thing is to have a strict 'women only' policy in female spaces, and that has to include males who think they can be women. I realise that there will be entirely harmless transwomen who are upset by this; but I'm afraid their feelings have to come behind the risk to women in the spaces that were intended for them.

Jackiest

Nanato3

In that scenario, for instance, what's to stop a man from coming in, pushing you back into the cubicle and assaulting you?

Many years ago my aunt was stabbed by a man in the ladies toilets. I never use public toilets if I can help it.

I don't think having a sign saying women only is really going to stop someone who prepared to assault you or stab you. In fact the best protection from being assaulted by a man is to have other men around as they will soon rush to protect you.

My uncle was waiting outside and didn't see a man enter the ladies toilets so he must have been already in there hiding in another cubicle. My aunt was stabbed in the head and she never got over it . This man had a knife in his hand , I can't see many people , men or women wanted to get involved.

I think all public toilets are a risk and I wouldn't like to use a unisex one .

Doodledog

The logic behind encouraging more men into women's spaces to protect the women and police the men who are also in women's spaces does seem a bit . . . patriarchal?

Yes and once again we’re back to we don’t know which men are ill intentioned towards, whatever they look like !

The logic behind encouraging more men into women's spaces to protect the women and police the men who are also in women's spaces does seem a bit . . . patriarchal?

Actually the presence of men has been shown to be more dangerous, so for example with regard to changing rooms, more incidents happen in mixed changing rooms than single sex facilities. So no more men don't make you safer.

Sorry, I was thinking about Nanato3’s aunt getting stabbed.
I still wouldn’t bank on men rushing to help. Just as likely to be a woman with a hefty handbag.