The ghoulishness of Hallowe’en?

I’m not a fan of celebrating Halloween myself, as someone up thread said it’s a far cry from the Halloween of my Scottish childhood. Nowadays it seems to focus on darkness and evil and the more goulish and gory the better. I think there is much in the world that’s good, bright and positive - I’d rather focus on and celebrate those things.
I don’t have a problem with children being aware of death, attending funerals etc, in fact I’d always advocate age appropriate honesty with children. How else will they learn how to cope with loss. But yes we do need to protect them from some some of the details, let’s face it they are not pretty and we struggle with those things ourselves sometimes.
I think in the period after a death we are more sensitive to anything that seems to trivialise the pain we’re experiencing ourselves. I can well remember over 40 years ago , following the death of my lovely dad, being reduced to tears by a children’s tv programme “Rentaghost” . My older children still remember me not letting them watch it. Someone else may not have had the response I had, but we always need to remember and respect that everyone is different.

trisher
Can I just say I am sorry to hear about your mother; I'm sure many of us know how it feels to lose one's parents.

However, it's one thing losing an elderly parent (very sad in itself of course) but it must be quite another feeling to lose your life partner, the love of your life, before he or she reaches old age.

That sounds horrendous lemongrove - I didn't look at the 'tat' in Tesco but I'm sure there is plenty.
It is just sheer commercialism.

I'm not "stony-hearted" lemon if people want to post about their personal feelings I know there are threads on GN for support and I appreciate some need that. What I don't accept is that using personal experiences to argue a point and then complaining of a lack of sympathy is good for discussion.

Jalima some stores have the most appalling things ( Tesco included) blood covered knives and axes and severed heads and hands.
Wish it was back to witches, and pumpkins.

I haven’t asked you to provide any sad personal stories trisher but if you ever do on here I shall remind you about your ‘fishing for sympathy’ comment.
Do you consider all who post personal sadness to be doing that, because I don’t, I call it looking for understanding.
Fortunately, most posters on GN are not so stony hearted.

Yes maw, just reiterating your OP.

I think it is the horrendous "horror movie" merchandise which is so prominent in shops that is the problem, and causes some people to be anxious. This has nothing to do with grief/dying just gory sensationalism

Isn’t that precisely what we are talking about?

What place have knives in Hallowe'en?

It used to be little witches and wizards and a black cat.

Exploring morbid concepts in a safe and fun way actually help processing of real bereavements

Oh is that what all that plastic tat is?

You can’t compare The Day of the Dead with Trick and Treating can you?

Anyway, you miss the point of the OP.

notanan, totally agree.

I think it is the horrendous "horror movie" merchandise which is so prominent in shops that is the problem, and causes some people to be anxious. This has nothing to do with grief/dying just gory sensationalism.

Exploring morbid concepts in a safe and fun way actually help processing of real bereavements.

Parts of the world that celebrate death in festivities also tend to be more open about talking about and dealing with loss.

I posted about my GD and discussing death with her MawBroon not about how mum's death affected me. As I said that's my personal business.

Grief is personal lemon it's not something I choose to post about on GN. If someone does I assume they are happy for their grief to be discussed, of course I may be wrong and they may just be fishing for sympathy.
The private side of my life is just that private. The people who need to know how I feel do know. It's nothing to do with politics but simply how I was raised. It's difficult to discuss something if someone uses their emotional state to challenge you.

Well who would have guessed you are such an expert on the grieving process Trisher and that your reference to your mother’s death does not constitute “a personal story”
Different for some.
End of.

No, let’s not simply think of it as a marketing scam, because it is more than that.
Society has become more violent all round and the Halloween ‘tat’ has moved with that fact and provides customers with what they want ( sadly) in that respect.
Children can and are frightened by a lot of it, as I have witnessed in stores.
I think posters could have a bit more sensitivity to others and their grief, even when they don’t hold the same Political views as themselves.

MawBroon I neither like nor dislike you. I have absolutely no personal relationship with you whatsoever. I don't actually know you. I do find it very hard to have discussions with people who insist on using their own personal stories as ammunition. And I try not to comment on those posts.
All sorts of things upset the recently bereaved and it would be impossible to remove everything that did. In fact I don't think it's a bad thing at all, being "upset" is part of the grieving process.
This isn't real horror we are discussing it's fantasy. It's plastic skeletons, plastic coffins, painted knives and saws. If it has to be criticised let's do it on the basis that actually it's a complete marketing scam selling plastic tat, and not on the grounds that it is real horror children need to be protected from. (Although actually it seems to be the adults on here who are most affected by it)
And paddyann is right it probably replaces many of the horror stories and other events children once experienced.

Young children can be philosophical about it paddyann simply because they have no understanding of it.
Particularly when the older person who dies isn’t involved in bringing them up so it hardly impacts on them.

I know exactly what you mean Maw in thinking of our loved ones once they are buried, and I have tried myself not to think about it, particularly a child.It still comes into my mind sometime, to be pushed quickly away.?

Maw I know exactly what you mean, I dislike all things ghoulish, and when recently bereaved it all seems so insensitive and really unnecessary. Please be kind to yourself and know many of understand and sympathise with your feelings.x

I regret starting this thread. My emotions which are especially fragile as the anniversary of paw”s death draws near have taken a battering from some who simply refuse to see my point of view. Children may possibly understand the concept of death - we do not ask them to understand decay, the decomposition of the body and that daggers through heads or eyes weeping blood are not in the slightest bit funny. What paddyann describes is not entirely unlike my own experience of Halloween in Scotland but much was left to the imagination not graphic depictions of open graves or body parts. As a child neither women nor children attended funerals by the ay. I wonder why?
But I’ll shut up now, you can go on with your own lives.
I’m out.

we were a large Irish catholic family who grew up on horror" stories and ghost stories ,lights were switched off and we sat round the fire and granny scared the bejesus out of us not just at Hallowe'en.We LOVED it .We used to fight to see who would sleep in her bed for an extra dose of horror.I think you are all being a bit precious about children who are often the most accepting of what death is .The vast majority will react as my GD does and tell you that sometimes people are sick or very old and just need to die.And yes she wants details.Not that we give them as detailed as she'd like but much healthier that she knows and understands what happens.She spent the day with her great aunt recently.The day before auntie died .She was very philosophical about it said auntie was ready to die she was sore and not at all well,it was the cancer .No doubt you'll be the same folk complaining young folk are all "snowflakes".

but really we all have emotional stories, why they should impact on people enjoying an evening of dressing up and fantasy horror
I know you don’t like me Trisher you have made that plain enough in the past, but to dismiss a young mother without a child’s experience as “emotional stories” is plumbing the depths. My argument has clearly bypassed you, my fault for not explaining myself better. The obsession with horror and violence today is totally at variance with most actual lives.
If you go back to my OP I said that the graveyard ghoulish imagery can be particularly upsetting especially to the recently bereaved I also said this aspect of death is not one I am comfortable with dwelling on.
You choose to dismiss this, fair enough, that is your opinion, hard on many of us recently bereaved but why should you even consider the feelings of others?

We had to explain to our 6 GC aged then 2 - 15yrs of age that my mother had died recently, we answered all their questions and reassured them she was safe and at peace with my Father.

They know about death and illness, but the tinies do not need to see a makeshift graveyard complete with body parts, open coffins etc when they come to visit.

I actually enjoy Halloween, the tinies,dressing up,as pumpkins, pumpkin carving and apple bobbing, but do,think it has got far to,ghoulish of late.

Over protect children?
Stores having shelves of gory body parts and bloodied knives and saws etc on display near the entrance?
Nope, we don’t protect children enough.

I know Stanley Spencer wasn't Victorian but he did paint people coming out of graves. I am sorry about your experiences but really we all have emotional stories, why they should impact on people enjoying an evening of dressing up and fantasy horror I don't know. I know stories have been sanitised over the years to accommodate children but they cannot be protected from all things. Horror and violence were originally part of many fairy stories. It is something that has its place in our culture and children growing up. Denying that place and trying to over protect children is of no help to them.