RIP Baby Star Hobson

So what would be deemed unsuitable? Domestic violence, alcoholism multiple partners perhaps?

There should be a sterilisation programme set up for what is deeming to be----unsuitable mothers. Rights ? They have no " rights " to murder children !!
As someone said, you can see the type as I have too when working at the hospital. We used to have a social worker on duty in the maternity department, more so because of the drug/ alcohol-fuelled mums.

Harsh and certainly not au-fait with this country, but we can't either have this horrendous society of murdered babies/ children. It's totally unacceptable in a civilised society.

Where are the children's rights ?

MissAdventure

As far as I'm aware, though I may be wrong, no one person is responsible.
A multidisciplinary meeting will be held, bringing together all those involved in a vulnerable person's care.

That is assuming a Section 47 notice has been given Miss Adventure if it hasn't then the whole decision would be the social workers.

So everyone that voted Tory did so because they weren’t willing to pay the taxes required to fund social services? What nonsense.
Who said that?

Middle class, "well spoken" parents often get away with abuse for exactly those reasons.
They speak nicely, therefore they couldn't possibly be abusers.

There was a case some years back where a mother had starved just one of children to death in her nice home.

Well, my neighbours girls are now that "type", not through lack of trying on her part, though.
Still, I expect that's someone else's doing.

So many generalisations here. I can assure you that middle class people abuse their children too, but they are far better at hiding it and keeping the authorities at bay than the poor and feckless. What horrible judgmental attitudes some people have.

Sarnia

Forsythia

What never ceases to amaze me is that when you look at the adults involved they are always of similar ilk: gormless, unemployable, no purpose to their lives. Always the same types over and over again, that poor sweet baby.

You may get pilloried for saying that but I have to agree with you. I worked on a Delivery Suite for 17 years and those Mums whose babies were on a pre-birth at risk register for various reasons more often than not, fell into that category. Many of them had been brought up in dysfunctional families and having a baby often meant they could move to a council or housing authority flat paid for by the benefit system.

I agree too. There is a ‘type’. Another partner as well...as in the case of little Arthur.

Talking about gormless, unemployable girls who are given flats, that is exactly what is happening with my neighbours grandchildren.
I would go as far as to say (though o hope to dear god I'm wrong) that they are potentially another Tustin type case just waiting to happen, should they have children.

As far as I'm aware, though I may be wrong, no one person is responsible.
A multidisciplinary meeting will be held, bringing together all those involved in a vulnerable person's care.

Forsythia

What never ceases to amaze me is that when you look at the adults involved they are always of similar ilk: gormless, unemployable, no purpose to their lives. Always the same types over and over again, that poor sweet baby.

You may get pilloried for saying that but I have to agree with you. I worked on a Delivery Suite for 17 years and those Mums whose babies were on a pre-birth at risk register for various reasons more often than not, fell into that category. Many of them had been brought up in dysfunctional families and having a baby often meant they could move to a council or housing authority flat paid for by the benefit system.

As I have said, everyone would be totally up in arms if I was here pontificating about how social workers are too young to do their job properly.

MissAdventure

I've said before, perhaps we can also look at some of the responses on here to grandparents who have cause for concern about the grandchildren care; "keep your beak out".
"Mind your own business" is what is said to them.

My response to that has always been that I would consider it entirely my business if my grandchild was at risk.

There is nothing wrong with examining from top to bottom all of the many failings to keep children safe.

Of course there is nothing wrong with examining the responses but let's look at the whole picture.
When I first started teaching in a very poor area there was huge network of support for children. There were health visitors, school nurses, a school clinic, local GP, there were regular health checks for children as they grew up, they were weighed and measured and checked over. There was also a wider community where people knew each other. It's all gone. We are left with social workers trying to replace a system and not unsurprisingly failing.
If you have a young social worker with no proper child development training, dealing with parents who are manipulative they try desperately to support the parents and sometimes take the wrong side. No one person should have the responsibility for taking these decisions there should be other support people involved, it should be a proper system of support not just a single person.

Thank you Doodledog for a very reasoned, articulate post.

Like Sarnia, my thought was - how many more? We all get fed up with hearing that lessons will be learned, when they never are. It’s heart rending.

So why did it take a whistle blower to highlight the abuse of those young girls?
Why wasn't it set out clearly that targets couldn't be met due to funding issues?

So everyone that voted Tory did so because they weren’t willing to pay the taxes required to fund social services? What nonsense.

Labour have a lot to answer for. I agree that more funding is required but it’s not the only answer. If young girls weren’t incentivised to have babies and given a house/flat and an income then that would be a start. This country is full of people with children that are in the way of their parent(s) living their life but provide them with the means to do so.

There’s whole estates full of homes with cannabis smoking adults living on benefits, idling their lives away, aided and abetted by the state and children going through hell.

I have seen this repeatedly with my own eyes and life experience - nothing to do with the right wing press.

I believe in the welfare state but it’s lost it’s way and it’s created a greedy, rapacious monster and it bears no resemblance to it’s original concept. When girls leave school with the aim of having a baby and getting a house often following on from the previous generation what hope is there?

Social workers weren't crying when they set up a meeting with my neighbour.
She came downstairs to me, totally distressed because they were cross questioning her about why she hadn't done anything.
I was able to give them dates and times and the names of the people she had spoken to, as I had made notes.
5 times.
The school.
2 times in person at ss offices.
2 times she and her daughter had phoned.
Guess why I had made notes??

In many ways, yes, MissA. Of course it is the fault of the perpetrators, but it is lack of funding that prevents proper state care of the victims.

The groups of men to whom you refer couldn't have preyed so easily on the girls if there had been more funding to support the sexual health teams, and the care homes, and the social workers, teachers and police who should have been able to keep them safe.

Similarly, reports on both Arthur and Star should have been followed up and acted on, but without enough funding it is just not possible for agencies to look out for every child who needs it. If a social worker had visited these children and not seen a different child who subsequently died, the finger would still be pointed at the social worker and not at the fact that there should be more of them with smaller workloads. There are only so many hours in a day.

And whilst the idea that the public is to blame it is not a palatable thought, trisher is pointing out that we all make choices when we vote, and if we want low taxes and individual responsibility as opposed to a more collective society where we pay a bit more and get more social services then we are, to a point, responsible when things go wrong.

It is not fair to blame over-worked social workers, doctors, teachers, and others who are employed to protect the vulnerable - the ones who have had any contact with either Arthur or Star will be torturing themselves as it is. What we need is a society which makes it possible for professionals to look after vulnerable children, not to have unmanageable workloads, targets and impossible expectations, and that takes money and the will to make it available.

Hetty58 you make a good point. I’ve always thought that a social worker’s main role in the eyes of the public is to contain the social problems they don’t want to think about. When a tragedy happens everyone is forced to confront the reality of child abuse in the most heartbreaking way. Social workers confront this every single day, and cry often, not just when tragedies hit the headlines.

"Mind your own business" is what is said to them.
It seems to be the official response too.

My response to that has always been that I would consider it entirely my business if my grandchild was at risk.
Hear hear

I've said before, perhaps we can also look at some of the responses on here to grandparents who have cause for concern about the grandchildren care; "keep your beak out".
"Mind your own business" is what is said to them.

My response to that has always been that I would consider it entirely my business if my grandchild was at risk.

There is nothing wrong with examining from top to bottom all of the many failings to keep children safe.

It's not just any one thing, but a combination of several.
I tend to blame David Cameron's goverment, partly.
Wasn't it him and George Osborne that cut back so many services, saying that it was vital to reduce the national debt?
I don't think many of those cut backs have been restored, as far as I know. It's a disgrace for a wealthy country like ours.
We need more police, more social workers, more mental health services, etc.

I feel exactly the same as you with regard to babies being slaughtered, Hetty.
That's precisely why a response of "oh but the poor social workers" is so distasteful.
Why the hell can't the whole system be critically examined?
Surely that's is the very least those poor children are owed.

These poor little souls are the ones we hear about.

Thousands of children have died at the hands of those who are supposed to care for them.
Thousands more are abused, mutilated.

Funding does need to be increased, more and better services provided, better training, the law changed to put the child's rights first.

But this is not a new phenomenon, sadly.