Thistlelass
I agree with the poster. Her only error of judgement has been to post the entire story on here for everyone to rip apart.
You think what she did was right?
Gransnet forums
Bereavement
Controlling daughter in law regarding the death of her father
(239 Posts)am a 66 year old single woman. I have 1 married son and 2 grandchildren.
I am writing this to try and understand why my daughter in law (DIL) is bitterly angry with me regarding the passing of her father.
I want to make this as brief as possible but it is a very sad and convoluted story…
I went to see father of my DIL who has been battling cancer after a bone marrow transplant.
I have 35 years of medical experience and upon seeing his condition I knew he needed to be in the hospital. I told his wife what I thought and also called my DIL to suggest admitting him, as I felt he was very sick.
5 days later he falls at home and both his wife and DIL are able to lift him up and drive to the hospital.
Once there, he was immediately admitted into ICU. His confirmed diagnosis was Sepsis.
From that point on, his condition deteriorated. He was intubated, given several antibiotics was in Septic Shock and finally passed away 19 days later.
This man was a wonderful human being and good friend to me.
4 days prior to his death, his family decided to have him extubated and placed in Comfort Care where he would die comfortably.
On this day the family said their goodbyes, fully expecting him to pass away within hours.
Because they all assumed that he would pass away quickly, my son and DIL told their children 6&8 years old that their grandfather had passed away.
The family was awaiting a call from from the hospital telling them he had passed. No call came. He was still alive and breathing on his own.
The prior evening I talked to my son who was tearful and told me they had said their goodbyes.
I was grieving as well and called the following day to see if I could join them as I wanted to see my son and comfort him. I was told no. My DIL and her mother were not wanting any visitors.
I had made plans to go and see this man on that Thursday. I work Monday thru Wednesday and Thursday was my first opportunity to do so.
I called the hospital to confirm that he was allowed visitors and was told yes.
I was relieved he was still alive as I needed to see him to say my goodbyes to help with my grieving and to gain closure.
While in his room a nurse came in and told me they were moving him out of ICU.
Thinking I was being helpful, I texted my son and let him know.
The following is the text I received. I have omitted titled all names with * symbol
“I am utterly shocked. I am asking that you never, ever tell ***that you visited him today. *** and * explicitly planned to be the last ones to be with him. *** is now not only painfully grieving, but now extremely angry. I am asking that you please do not contact either of them, and please leave now. **** already called the hospital and is taking ****back now. Again, * is not aware that anyone visited today and *** and I are asking that it must remain that way.”
I received 2 more texts asking for confirmation that I had left the hospital and ordering me to not contact them as they needed time and space due to the difficult position I put them in.
I was in total shock…
This angry text from my son is when I learned of his wife and mother in law’s “plan” to be the last ones to be with him.
I left the hospital sobbing. I was so confused.
By the time I got home, my confusion had turned to anger. Number one I was shocked to receive such a hateful text from my son and number 2 had no reasonable reason why…
I honored his order of not contacting him but not because he ordered me to but because if I had spoken to him I would have cut him to shreds with my tongue and knew that doing so would only compound the stress he was under.
My DIL’s father lived 4 more days.
I waited 2 weeks to contact my son and asked him to make arrangements to come and talk to me. He came yesterday and I finally had the answers I was looking for…
He told me that he and my DIL think that I overstepped my bounds and deliberately “ inserted” myself in the dying process and grief of her father…
He then told me that my DIL accused me of being selfish, self absorbed and was only thinking about myself…
I told my son that I only agreed with her 3rd accusation because , yes, I did go to see him because I needed to see him to say my goodbyes ease my grieving heart and to have closure. I then asked my son if he believed that wrongly inserted myself in their situation and he said yes. I asked him if be believes that I am selfish and self absorbed and he said no.
He told me that I should have called him and inform him of my plan to see his FIL. At this point I knew exactly what they wanted from me. I again told him I didn’t understand( even though I did) and decided that he was going to have to look me in the eye and tell me exactly why… he told me that I should have “asked” them if I could visit him. I asked him if they actually believed that I needed their permission to see him and he said yes…
I told him that I do not need anyone’s permission to do anything, including this. I told him that my visit with his FIL was between he and I only.
My son told me that he and my DIL assumed I had enough common sense to realize that when he told me over the phone that they said their goodbyes I was to understand that they were to be the last ones to see him…
I was dumbfounded and asked my son to explain to me just how I was to figure that out after only being told they had said their goodbyes…
He immediately admitted that it was wrong of him to assume I would figure it out.
I told him that his wife and MIL should have planned their “plan” a little more thoughtfully and made sure that anyone who wanted to say goodbye would not be able to. A sign on his door stating the family wanted no visitors…informing the hospital phone operators that for anyone who called was to be told that he was not taking visitors. I did call the hospital to make sure he was allowed visitors and I was told yes.
My son responded with this”. With all the stress they were under how can you possibly think that they would even think of doing that”
I told him that if their “plan” was that important to them, they should have thought it thru and took the proper steps to insure the plan remained uninterrupted.
My son then tells me that his wife and her mother decided ahead of time who they would or would not allow to see their dad and husband..
I told him that obviously I was one of the not allowed persons. He immediately regretted what came out of his mouth…
I laughed a little and told him that after learning this I am even happier that I went to see him and that I will NEVER regret my decision.
I was told that his wife does not want me to come to there house as her anger toward me is palatable. I told him I was just fine with that as I had no desire at all to see her but that I wanted and needed to see my grandchildren an he agreed to bring them to me.
I told my son to make sure his wife understands that I will NEVER compromise who I am and what my beliefs are to make her feel better. I told him the burden is on her to contact me.
I told him this will remain a situation where she and I will have to agree to disagree. I told him I have moved on and that If she wants to live in anger she owns the problem, not me.
I asked him if his wife is actively trying to ban me from their lives and he said no. That she told him she wants me in their lives and wants me to be a grandmother to their kids….
Not too sure I believe her though…
My son told me it is very hard being in the “ middle”. I went to him and hugged him and told him I loved him and he broke down and cried.
I posted this looking for answers as I truly believe I was within my rights whereas my DIL believes I was not…
Thistlelass, if I posted looking for answers and just about everybody gasped with shock at my attitude, I hope I'd have the wisdom to look at my behaviour. If it wasn't me who posted but I was one of the few who agreed with the behaviour of the OP, I'd probably think very carefully about my attitude about things.
That is the risk everyone takes when they start a thread on any social media.
If the OP didn't know that she is on the same level as someone who doesn't realise that if you cross a busy road without looking for traffic you will probably get run down.
The purpose of social media is not to tell anyone, who posts, no matter how outrageous their actions that they are right.
In fact in a case like this where it is so obvious that the OP sees herself at the centre of events at the death of someone she is unrelated to, but is friendly with, rather than the family of the deceased, is so getting it wrong, there is no way any reasonable person can do other than try to explain to her just how wrong she has got it.
Far from being an error, it may be the best thing she has done. Almost without exception everyone on this thread has told her how wrong her behaviour has been and may be the weight of our objections will succeed where the words and actions of the close family ofthe bereaved have failed and she will do something to put matters right before she has reason to start a thread under the 'Estranged' heading telling us how her faamily estranged her when she wanted to mourn the death of a close friend.
I agree with the poster. Her only error of judgement has been to post the entire story on here for everyone to rip apart.
Oldnproud
I fail to see how 'two yes, one no' works, or at least works fairly
Question 1: Son asks " Should we stop contact with my mother?"
Son says no, his wife says yes, so contact continues.
Question 2. Son asks, "Shall we carry on having contact with my mother.?"
Son says yes, his wife says no, so contact ends.
Same basic question, but with a different outcome purely because of how it's worded!
In other words, whoever asks the question can't fail to get their way as long as they word it a certain way in the first place!
Yes, wording matters.
That's a great lesson for people who use 2 yes 1 no. We've never used wording that didn't yield a true veto.
However we do need a new car. I want a car he doesn't care for. I'll try to find words he can't refuse.
Wonder if there is word salad that will yield my dream car. 
Oldnproud
Norah
Oldnproud
I fail to see how 'two yes, one no' works, or at least works fairly
Question 1: Son asks " Should we stop contact with my mother?"
Son says no, his wife says yes, so contact continues.
Question 2. Son asks, "Shall we carry on having contact with my mother.?"
Son says yes, his wife says no, so contact ends.
Same basic question, but with a different outcome purely because of how it's worded!
In other words, whoever asks the question can't fail to get their way as long as they word it a certain way in the first place!No.
Your Q1 they end contact (one no)
Your Q2 they end contact (one no)
It's brilliant as an argument solution.Q1: The question was ' Shall we end contact?"
As i understand Two yes, one no, both would need to say "yes" for contact to end. In my example, they didn't. The son said "no", so contact continues.
You're correct with your wording. I read too fast. Sorry.
In the debate about contact with mum, each get a vote. We've never played word salad -- we ask straight forward questions and make straight forward answers.
Really the question is something like "why can't the children visit mum?" and the answer is "because I said no." Each person gets a veto on important issues.
I'll watch that all question wording in future.
For us it's usually just what should be the new colors on walls? Green? No Pink? No Cream? Yes
We need a new car shall it be an x? No Shall it be a Y? No Shall it be a Z? Sure, I can live with that, yes.
Excellently put, M0nica on Sun 11-Sep-22 18:05:11.
In the US, every single medical office. Most states have an online public registry that anyone can check for properly licensing and accreditation now.
Even if she started as an MA before the 1960s, at some point in her 35 year career she would have been required to be licensed after a certain time frame.
If the op was a MA before the licensing and accreditation rules, that would mean she ended her career in 1970. Which means she would have started that career in 1935. Which would mean she was born in 1919.
imaround
At some point after the 1960s, a medical assistant would have had ti be certified, which would have required some level of additional education.
In private medicine/dentistry I don’t know who is going to check whether those working as assistants are qualified. If you have gone to a private doctor’s office, how many would check the qualifications of someone who might take your blood pressure, weigh you or do basic tasks an assistant might do?
One of my daughters needed orthodontic treatment, and was referred to a private orthodontist. On one visit I recognized an assistant as a former student of mine. The girl had done a year of a science course (nothing to do with dentistry) and I knew she had no qualifications. Questioning my daughter, I discovered that this “assistant” had been doing the routine adjustment of braces, without any check carried out by orthodontist.
When my other daughter needed braces, I found a different orthodontist and checked each visit who she was seeing!
Watch out, OurKid - my post got deleted for agreeing with another poster who suggested that.
We won't get a mench, will we?
OurKid1
I am guessing that the OP is reading all the comments and deciding which ones to include in her novel ...
??
I am guessing that the OP is reading all the comments and deciding which ones to include in her novel ...
I don't wish to be unkind, and my post is not meant to be unkind, but you do come across as very superior. You are told mil/dil could not paint such a nice picture or cook such a lovely meal - aren't they paying you a compliment? You really do seem to have a very strange attitude about your accomplishments - and they are no more than that. You have learned some medical knowledge over the years but have no medical qualifications. You have learned how to decorate cakes and you have run a B&B. So have a lot of women. It seems your dil's family have actual educational qualifications yet, rather surprisingly, they don't look down on your lack of educational qualifications. Perhaps that's because they're kind. You really do not have anything special to boast about, and maybe if you recognised that you would get on with the family far better. I say this as a qualified lawyer who does her best not to boast about that to people I meet. I recognise that they have many useful talents that I don't.
Norah
Oldnproud
I fail to see how 'two yes, one no' works, or at least works fairly
Question 1: Son asks " Should we stop contact with my mother?"
Son says no, his wife says yes, so contact continues.
Question 2. Son asks, "Shall we carry on having contact with my mother.?"
Son says yes, his wife says no, so contact ends.
Same basic question, but with a different outcome purely because of how it's worded!
In other words, whoever asks the question can't fail to get their way as long as they word it a certain way in the first place!No.
Your Q1 they end contact (one no)
Your Q2 they end contact (one no)
It's brilliant as an argument solution.
Q1: The question was ' Shall we end contact?"
As i understand Two yes, one no, both would need to say "yes" for contact to end. In my example, they didn't. The son said "no", so contact continues.
Oldnproud
I fail to see how 'two yes, one no' works, or at least works fairly
Question 1: Son asks " Should we stop contact with my mother?"
Son says no, his wife says yes, so contact continues.
Question 2. Son asks, "Shall we carry on having contact with my mother.?"
Son says yes, his wife says no, so contact ends.
Same basic question, but with a different outcome purely because of how it's worded!
In other words, whoever asks the question can't fail to get their way as long as they word it a certain way in the first place!
No.
Your Q1 they end contact (one no)
Your Q2 they end contact (one no)
It's brilliant as an argument solution.
accept that your place in this tragedy is right out in the margins not centre stage
Nothing more needs to be said, really. This sums it up, very politely.
It's as silly as tossing a coin and saying, "Heads I win, tails you lose."
I fail to see how 'two yes, one no' works, or at least works fairly
Question 1: Son asks " Should we stop contact with my mother?"
Son says no, his wife says yes, so contact continues.
Question 2. Son asks, "Shall we carry on having contact with my mother.?"
Son says yes, his wife says no, so contact ends.
Same basic question, but with a different outcome purely because of how it's worded!
In other words, whoever asks the question can't fail to get their way as long as they word it a certain way in the first place!
I understand how upset you are, but it seems right from the word go, in your OP, you are putting yourself centre stage.
The first thing you tell us is your biographic and family detailts, none of which are relevant. You tell us in the title that the story involves your DS and Controlling DiL over her own father's death!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. How your nursing experience told you he was seriously ill some days before he had the fall that caused his hospital admission and that you told your DiL and her mother. Yet, as all this happened several days before your friend was taken to hospital and had no effect on the outcome, why did you need to tell us this part of the story, anyway? You do say that you want to be as brief as possible.
I am deeply sorry but I must agree with others, this whole story is about you and how it affected you, and how upset you are. No sympathy and understanding for a grieving daughter and wife, your sons' natural concern for his wife and this sad, sad time.
I suspect your behaviour was, for your son, the straw that broke the camel's back. That this event is the culmination of a whole pattern of behaviour that puts you, your needs and how you are treated before the real needs and kindness other people need.
I am with others, you way overstepped the mark. Put your self on the same level in these events as the man's family.
Stop justifying yourself. Accept you far overstepped the mark and apologise and then keep quie for some onths. say nothing, accept that your place in this tragedy is right out in the margins not centre stage. It is the only way forward if you want to keep any kind of relationship with son.
At some point after the 1960s, a medical assistant would have had ti be certified, which would have required some level of additional education.
VioletSky
It's amazing how young children start saying they don't want to be around certain adults. As a child who was seriously let down on that score, I advocate listening to them
I agree. We should always listen to them and try to find out what is at the root of their worries.
It may be something simple which can be rectified simply or could be something more serious.
VioletSky
The best way to have a good relationship with the grandchildren is to have a good relationship with the parents
There it is.
Don't be a bossy demanding person, slowly build a relationship.
Smileless2012
Not IMO Norah. If the OP loses contact with her GC for me that would to punish her regardless of who is ultimately responsible for the decision, and will also punish her GC.
I disagree. Neither GM or GC are "punished" they can pick up at 18 (or whatever out of house age).
I think we will not agree on two yes one no.
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