On middle age

No gilly that wasn't me! In that situation I would have just joined the Non Eu queue where I'm pretty sure I would have got through without a problem. I don't do the shouting thing, just quietly and politely make my point until someone takes notice.

Movedalot you weren't at Newcastle airport at the end of June were you?

We were standing an in very long queue waiting to get to passport control having just arrived back in the UK. There was a much shorter and faster queue for non EU arrivals and a lady behind me pushed her way to the front of it and shouted "as British citizens we are obviously very low priority" she got onto her "soap box" telling everyone why the country is "in the state that it is" and then went on to demand someone senior from imigration come to see her and explain themselves. She didn't get the queue moving any quicker but it certainly kept us entertained and helped the time pass !

Men become fathers all the time, and whether they're of child producing age is never an issue when they apply for work. I worked from the age of 17, with a break between 23 and 27 (first child, no maternity leave). I had 2 more children in the mid 80's, took maternity leave but gave my employer 33 years of service either side of the mat leave. I despair when I hear other women expressing the view that women can't be taken seriously in the work place, because at some stage they may give birth. Nightowl, you are right, the 'fight' is far from won.

Good for you movedalot. An excellent example for the rest of us.

Getting back to the OP! I don't seethe more since my 40s, I tend to express my feelings much more than I used to, perhaps I am more confident? Not sure. For example when I was queuing at an airport a while back some man started creeping up the outside in an attempt to push in. I could see people looking and presumably seething but I just went up to him and asked if he knew it was a queue and showed him where the end was. Likewise when we arrived back from NL and no luggage arrived for anyone, everyone else seethed in a queue but I stopped people who looked official as they walked by to try to get some help for the one person who was trying to deal with us all. I failed. Eventually I rang the local BBC radio station which resulted in management's arrival and our potential all day wait was reduced to about 10 minutes! Why do my problems always seem to happen at airports? .

So, no, I don't seethe, I say.

I have to agree with celebgran. As a member of a small business forum the topic of employing young women often comes up and many small businsses simply cannot afford to take the risk of employing someone of childbearing age. My DIL works in a small business and worked until the week before she gave birth with all three of my grandchildren and took the bare minimum of leave (weeks) as she was only entitled to statutory maternity pay. I am not saying that this is right, merely pointing out the two sides.

Clearly there are times when women need to be treated differently but with fairness and respect.
I don't think that means that employers can't take women seriously!

Yes, chilbirth is physically traumatic. Also, often, emotionally traumatic. It's not unreasonable to give women a maternity year off paid work. It may be tough on small businesses but a lot of life is tough.

What is a male equivalent of childbirth? Genuine question. If there is an equivalent then they need the same time out for it. If not, then they don't.

I worked til 2/52 before both of my births (where did the word confinement come from?! And returned 6/52 after. If I'd taken longer, I'd have been asked to resign my partnership.
I envy my daughter who has a right to a year off in a few weeks time!

And no I don't support violence for any cause, but I do understand why it happens.

boot sorry for being snappy. I don't know if their tactics were necessary, it's hard to judge from such a distance. All I know is, they had been trying to win the vote for women by peaceful means for a long time without success and presumably they felt it was necessary to step up the tactics. If you oppress a section of society for long enough they will eventually do whatever they feel they need to do to be heard.

Anyway, my point was that 'over the top' feminists today come nowhere near the 'over the topness' of the suffragettes but they are still ridiculed. Which to me suggests that the fight is still far from won.

Suppose, for the sake of argument, one sympathised with the IRA's 'cause' (for a united Ireland), would you then, necessarily have to approve their violence? I think not.

The same logic applies to the fight for female suffrage.

nightowl, I didn't mean that what they achieved wasn't good. I was questioning some of their tactics and wondering if those tactics (letter bombs and other violence) were really necessary.

Not to mention adoption leave.

Are you saying celebgran that because women are the ones who have babies they should not be entitled to work at all? Or only those who are infertile through age or circumstances should be allowed to work? I accept that maternity leave can cause problems for small businesses but to say that women can't be taken seriously in the workplace because they might have children is surely a step too far.

And Paternity leave???

I will NOT shoot you down in flames , Celebgran .

This is going to get me shot down in flames but how can women be seen as equal when they take months off in maternity leave e.g. My own daughter leaving employers having to provide temp cover it must be hell.

We have lovely off who been off since January. Maternity leave.

impossible to be taken seriously in work place.

I couldn't agree more Iam64 and Greatnan. I was once on my way home from work at midnight (when I worked shifts) when I saw a young man in the middle of nowhere who was so drunk he couldn't stand. The police refused to help so I ended up taking him home (his home, when he was finally coherent enough to tell me where it was). My family were furious with me the next day but all I could think was that it might have been my son.

I used to laugh at my mum because she would go out of her way to help anyone; man or woman, young or old. I hope I am becoming more like her in that respect as I grow older.

Greatnan and Nightowl - good posts. I have always offered seats, held doors open, and as I'm tall, I'm often asked to reach items from high shelves in supermarkets, and I'm happy to do so. Positive responses to each other make life less stressful. It may even help us remain tolerant and not become too grumpy as we get older.

What a shame the suffragettes ever took such disgraceful actions on my behalf then boot. I will hand back my vote immediately.

That is a good post, Greatnan. I agree. If I saw a young man (or an old one) struggling with a buggy and young kids, I'd give him a hand same as I would for a woman.

We are talking about one half of the human race as if it were a homogeneous group. I think I have more in common with many men I know than with many women I know. I offer help, open doors, give up seats, etc. to anybody who seems to need my help, regardless of their gender. I often ask for help in lifting my heavy suitcase and I don't think it demeans me in any way.
I want people to be treated as people and not separated out into genders.
It would help, of course, if the great world religions stopped treating women as not quite human! How can women stand to be told they are not able to become ministers, to attend certain services, or sit in certain parts of their place of worship? I know Christianity is moving in the right direction, very slowly, but Islam leaves me in despair.

i don't regard anyone who sends letter bombs as a hero. I regard such people as thugs. The end – whatever it is – never justifies violence except in self-defence.

For every cause there will be people who take it to extremes. The suffragettes were vilified in their day and in fact they were completely over the top - sending letter bombs, damaging property, and generally causing mayhem. Yet today we regard them as heroes. The fight is far from won, even in this country and I'm glad that young women are recognising that. The fact that the label 'feminism' still attracts ridicule and brings out the tired old stereotypes (not on here but in general) is testament to the fact that it is still seen as a threat to the status quo. I'm sure the term 'suffragette' or 'suffragist' was seen similarly 100 years ago, yet now it's seen as something noble.

Feminism has nothing to do with wanting to take anything away from men, and everything to do with wanting to be seen as men's equal in every respect.