Me too Sparklygrandma, I would never have believed our ES capable of the things he's said and done over the last 4 years. He wont admit it but we know our d.i.l. is behind this, still we're his parents and I'd have thought that no matter what the first 27 years of life would count for something but no. Those years don't count for anything and neither do we anymore.

Presumably your son has access rights which he could go through the courts to decide. My DS was in this position and we paid for him to file for access. DGS was just a year old, lived 250 miles away so his Mother was insistent he was too young and couldn't leave the Country. The Court gave her short thrift. We had to agree to a few things to make sure she felt she had some control but in the end a minimum access was agreed with reasonable access on top of that.
Helping out with a fee which cost a couple of hundred pounds was the best thing we could have done and it has meant we retained contact too. It might be worth a shot if you had the money. Many Dads think they won't get anywhere but they often do better than they think and I am sure your GC would thank you in the long run.
Of course, there might be circumstances which preclude your son getting access, in which case, I sincerely hope you will one day get the call you long for.

Oh SparklyGrandma So sorry you're going through the same. We try to bring our kids up right and to be their own person, to be strong yet kind. However sometimes they end up being controlled by a person they initially love. It's like brainwashing but because they are so in love they don't realise what is happening. We could see it happening from the start but were helpless as he defended her nasty, cruel behaviour. Now he wishes he had never laid eyes on her and unfortunately a child is stuck in the middle. I have my son back but she stirred things up so badly that my children all fell out and no longer have contact with each other. As I write this I can hardly believe it myself as they were all so close before he met her. My DH says give it time and hopefully they will one day make up. I know how you feel about talking to friends about it. Most people will not have experienced such psycholigal trauma in their families so would not understand. Lucky we have Gransnet eh! ((()))

icanhandthemback So glad you finally got access. I live in hope. Yes my son has a solicitor on the case. Trouble is it is costing him an arm and a leg and she is dragging her feet by not answering legal letters so each time they have to contact her again and again it costs him so much. He finds it all very stressful. Also she is a dangerous, manipulative and calculating person who would do anything - and I mean anything to get her own way.

we have 3 young grandchildren we know longer have contact with 8,6 and 5.
Our crime to cause our 2 sons to stop us seeing their kids we think is we took in our gd when 1 yr old when ss became involved in dd life ,it was that or have her go into care we really had no choice! (or maybe because i asked him for money back he owed us £7000)
First middle son declared that we were terrible parents and we would never see him or his family again 8 and 6 yr old.
Then eldest sons wife who they had not ever really got on with became their best friend ever and she stopped us seeing their daughter 5 yr old.
Until this happened 18 moths ago now we were very involved in the kids lives baby sitting whenever asked ,weekend sleep overs , holidays .
What I find most hurtful is eldest son works with dh and is in my house every day and acts as if everything is normal, sits at my table drinks my tea,brings his dog in and leaves it while he is at work but won't tell us why we can't see his daughter and if i comment I'm accused of causing trouble.

After the death of my son 8 years ago I hoped I would be able to continue the relationship with my 2 grandchildren. Now 12 and nearly 10. Unfortunately things got difficult I was pushed away. I went to court and was given an order to be able to see the children. The DIL said she would work it out but she went back on that. I have tried for the last three years but the children have been turned against me. I never got to be able to see them without her which is what the solicitor wanted, but our trust was misplaced as soon as proceedings stopped. I have tried but they don't speak if I see them or give me any eye contact. I am sure without her being present we could have worked it out as I got on well with them. I have kept sending them cards and letters. Which, incidentally I found before we went to court she never gave them!
It was the eldests birthday this week and I didn't go round. I just find it too upsetting it makes me feel ill. I was getting very stressed and was advised to not go so had been trying half terms and birthdays etc. I have no thank you for any gifts which is not surprising. The whole family are now excluded, their Uncle my youngest, has had no response to his polite requests the last time he tried was 18 months ago. He sends cards and little notes as well.
I have a box I which I keep copies of things and notebooks I write in for them.
I always sense with the eldest he would like to speak but can't as his Mum would be cross. I shall live in hope that one day curiosity will get the better of them and there will be a surprise note or message.
P.S. I have asked for the older ones mobile number but she won't give it too me. At least I could have sent little messages.
It is so cruel I feel for you too SparklyGrandma. It is hard to discuss with friends as they can't believe what you say is true. Make sure you keep copies of everything you send to them then one day they can have the box!!!

Hi UkeCan61, yes - I'm very lucky to be able to see my grand-daughter often. Son & DIL live in the same town as me but both work hard, and long hours, in retail so I do lots of collecting from nursery and entertaining GD either at my home or theirs. I'm off for a weekend in Yorkshire this week and the thing I will miss most is GD's infectious giggle!

I hope day she reads that letter and comes to find you.
I have 6 grandchildren. 5 live round the corner and I see them 4 or 5 times a week. Love each and every one of them to bits and they know how much they are loved.
Sadly the 6th one we have never met. He will be 2 next month. My DIL was happy for us to see him and wanted us involved in his life. but my son for whatever reason decided we were not to be involved in their family life and refuses to let DIL bring him here. He refuses to give her a reason and has told her it us us or him, so we told her to opt for him. This extends to all of our family, the rest of my children and the cousins. Wish I knew why as feel the wee one is missing out on being part of a bigger family.
I am hoping he will come and look us up later in life but probably not.

Such sad stories. All we can do is live in the hope that one day these beloved DGC will become curious and seek their grandparents out. Meanwhile we must live our lives too for our own wellbeing and also to show the estranged ones that there is a way through and they cannot control us. Because that - in my opinion is what it is all about - control. I have to admit, I go through phases where I just want to give up as it is stressful thinking about it all but something makes me carry on. The DGC will hopefully one day see that we are strong and positive and have waited patiently in the wings for contact with them. Even if we miss them growing up I believe there is always a chance of a relationship in the future. (((hugs))) to all xxx

A very moving letter but what of the consequences in later life for Holly? How is she going to feel knowing that her mother stopped contact with her dad and grandparents?
This letter could do more harm than good.

Today I was feeling jaded after looking after our 2 grandsons almost constantly for the last 4 weeks of school holidays. After reading all your sad posts, I am feeling ashamed of myself! My heart bleeds for those of you who have been kept from your dear grandchildren. It must be so painful, and I hope that at some time you will have a chance to see them again.

for you all.

Not sure your son really needs a solicitor for this, particularly if she's very expensive and not doing her job. The majority of fathers are not represented in court proceedings for contact and the courts will usually take a very strong line with a mother who tries to stop or thwart contact arrangements, seeing a relationship with both parents as a child's right. The fact that the mum has specifically said she's cutting you all out should actually work in your son's favour as it shows her vindictiveness.There are some very good support groups such as Families need Fathers who will give your son good advice through the process and give him confidence to do it unrepresented. If your son gets contact then you will too so he's doing it for all of you and most importantly for Holly.

One day, whatever her mother has told her about Holly, she is going to wonder about her father. She is likely to be curious and as she grows into an adult will begin to realise that he is unlikely to have been all bad. If she decides to look for him and finds him, he will have his chance to put his side of the story. He can also let her know about the letters you have written for her. I am sure she would want to read them. Once she is in possession of all the facts she will make her own mind up, and it may not reflect very well on her mother. That is the risk the mother is taking in keeping Holly away from her paternal family. Keep writing the letters. I am sure they are helping you to deal with that void in your life.

Thankyou everyone. I hadn't heard of Families need Fathers. I'll check that out.
Mumsy I haven't written anything bad in the letter and I think it only fair that a child knows why he/she has no contact with a parent. She could otherwise feel abandoned by the absent parent.
I don't know how it will pan out but we all hope one day to see her.

Ukecan61, I understand what you are saying and not for one minute did I think you or any other grandparent would have written anything bad in a letter to their grandchild. It just concerns me that by a grandchild getting a letter to say why theres been no contact it can open a whole can of worms.

Its not easy living with estrangement and to know what to say or do for the best, we can only do what we think is the right thing to do. Like you I live in hope to see my grandchildren.

This makes powerful reading!That such heartless and ungrateful grown up kids or their nasty partners can treat loving grandparents so badly.
I only have one grandaughter who is well into her teens now and
would not describe our relationship as terribly close, she has
a fairly serious boyfriend.
But even though her parents parted when she was a baby I at least got to see her now and then.I feel for you all that are missing your grandchildren so much. Warm hugs to you all.

Smileless2012
Sorry to hear you are going through it too. I think I have decided that this year I will buy and wrap presents for my DGDs and keep them in a special deep drawer to give to them if I see them when older. I have been sending presents to DiL parents address for the last 5 years, with no feedback as to whether the children get the presents.
Painful time of year coming up, but I don't go on about it to friends, keep it to myself and get through it best I can. I hope those other Nan's and Gran's going through similar, have some peace here and now, and reconciliation with grandchildren when they are old enough to choose.

Sunny75 thank you, good suggestion I have decided to start keeping things in a box for them. Good luck with yours too....

UkeCan61 thank you - we do bring them up to be honest and straightforward but sometimes life intervenes and all we can do is wait (and pray if thats our thing)..

Just saw this! What a beautiful letter, Uke! It's full of warmth, love and meaningful information! Love the fact that you focus on telling Holly about yourself and DS and don't dwell on the divorce!

I don't see any harm in your telling her what her mom said. At 18, she'll be an adult and certainly old enough to handle this. Yes, it may hurt her to know her mom had this attitude. But if DS somehow doesn't get visitation, how much more would it hurt your GD to think her dad would abandon her?

I hope he does get visitation, of course, and enough that he can share some of it with you.

Meanwhile, it's really heartbreaking to see how many EGPs there are in this conversation. I love the memory box ideas and such though. Also, I read somewhere that some EGPs keep a FB page, just in case their GC ever try to find them there, as they get older. FWIW.

Thank youUkeCan61, Gransnet just flagged up this post when I commented on another post and it helped enormously. We were allowed to see our first GS when he was born a year ago and then told not to call unannounced as we would have to be accommodated. Our Sil controls the situation, both he and his family are very controlling. Our son took gifts for the whole family in December in 2015, but was told to tell us to ?..of and the gifts were returned. Our sil was abusive and so threatening. We have never seen our DD or GC since. I have kept our GC presents as I couldn't bare to part with them. I also have a box for him. I had never thought of leaving the box with our solicitor, so thank you for that. I also photographed his 1st birthday card and the message inside in case he never is allowed his cards. Although my Dh and I are heartbroken it helps to connect with other people who feel the same. Loosing our DD is like a bereavement and I wonder if we will survive it..

Poly580 - I'm wondering whether your DD is all right or under coercive control. SiL sounds a bully. Are you in touch with any of her friends or cousins who know how she is? Is your son in contact with his sister at all.?
This could be a situation which will eventually become intolerable to your DD and then change. So sad for you at present.
When his DD was one, 20 years ago, my son's ex partner, her new man and her family decided he couldn't see her any more. Solicitors were involved and the family court gave my son access, supervised at first. Soon we were back to weekend visits. Now everyone gets on all right and the 'baby' involved knows both her parents points of view and makes her own judgements.
I was so sad during the year my son and I didn't see his little girl, one of the things I did to fill my weekends was to volunteer at a contact centre. Every family using it had their own story. One parent flew in fortnightly, others didn't turn up. A young woman with a good job and education fretted for the 2 hours her babe in arms was with the man who'd ruined her life. A teenager's father was heard telling him 'I'll bring some money for you next time.'
So much sadness yet many families sorted their differences to the point where they could cope with regular contact without the centre being needed.

Uke, Poly and all suffering like this, I do hope your situations change with time. We were so fortunate that ours did.

I was there at my GD birth 25 years ago this Monday, according to my D, my GD has issues. I haven't seen her for 8 years now. She was the light of my life. I have GS too, I adored him too. Following the breakdown of my marriage my D let my husband (not his real GD, nor my D real Father, take him on holidays, visit, take him for meals out. It is heart-breaking. However, one thing's sorted now ExH has given me the house and is supportive of me. As for my D, well I had her aged 17, that was 45 years ago, adored her, she was my life and party. this year I have promised myself to let them all go. I am not going to fight for them I will still send my GS a card for birthday and Christmas and my GGD to until they attain an age when they can do what they wish. Everything was fine with my D until I became acutely ill and unable to help her. I haven't received a card from her for years. This is okay. I know I am not in the minority here. Aged 62 this is the first day of the rest of MY life.

Elrel, our son is the only contact with ou DD. Unfortunately he has only seen her on their birthdays and at Christmas. It's always in a coffee shop and sil is always present. Sil is a bully, has threatened our DS if he fails to agree with what he says. Our DS would do anything for anyone and hates confrontation. It's very hard for him. DD has always been a loner so has no friends. Sil behaviour is textbook. He has alienated her from her family and repeats to her "your family has dropped you" in front of our son.
I have continued to send her cards and I always put on that the door is always open, in case she ever needs us. It's a nightmare how a complete stranger joins your family and turns all your worlds upside down. Families eh? I hope everyone else who is suffering in here finds peace, no matter what side of the argument you are on. Thank you for your reply Elrel x

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