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LucyGransnet (GNHQ) Wed 26-Oct-16 15:32:28

The great Halloween debate: ghostly or ghastly?

It's no secret that a lot of we Brits don't quite know what to make of Halloween - in stark contrast to our American cousins and their colourful annual celebrations. We hear from two bloggers on opposite sides of the pond - and opposite sides of the Halloween argument.

First up is British blogger and author, Christine Human, who is firmly ensconced in the anti-Halloween camp...

Christine Human

Halloween: ghastly, not ghostly

Posted on: Wed 26-Oct-16 15:32:28

(71 comments )

Lead photo

Halloween - a bit of fun, or commercialised nonsense?

The grandchildren call, hauling in impossibly big pumpkins, and meet the same glazed eyes that my children saw when Halloween was mentioned - I try not to purse my lips. It's a grandad job, carving pumpkins, so they go straight through to the garden and I do enjoy watching them scooping out the contents, chatting away. I provide sausages in bread rolls and squash. I find the tea lights ready to tuck inside. The discarded innards hit the food recycling immediately.

Even Mary Berry cannot persuade me to make pumpkin pie.

I don't know of any other occasion that provokes such a reaction - it's definitely a 'love it or hate it' occasion - and I hate it. Every supermarket shelf turns orange, or so it seems, and those giant online retailers keep trying to persuade me to buy Halloween outfits, even producing a range for pets – well really!

I believe its roots lie in the idea that the spirits of the dead take to wandering about looking for bodies to inhabit and that the living put on scary costumes and make loud noises to stop them. I don’t care – I don’t like it. I know it's big in America and I don't care – so is campaigning for presidency and look where that's leading them. I fully expect Donald to appear in pumpkin costume and Hillary, claws out, as a hissing sleek, black cat.

31 October, it's lockdown night in our household, and the warm welcome usually offered to callers is subject to a twelve-hour curfew. Wartime rules apply -
"put that light out".


31 October, it’s lockdown night in our household, and the warm welcome usually offered to callers is subject to a twelve-hour curfew. Wartime rules apply - "put that light out". A quick trip to the front garden to padlock the gate, flick off the security light, and double-check for reckless illumination from within. Hastily recruited triple A batteries achieve undeserved status sitting alongside precious ornaments, the naked shell of the bell exposed confirming its demise. The large brass knocker on the front door swaddled with a duster and secured with brown tape. The insipid yellow streetlights interrupted by frigid swaying branches cast spooky shadows on the walls, the only sound a tomcat howling.

Satisfied, we retreat to the back of the house, and settle down in front of the gas fire, put subtitles on the TV to ensure no indiscreet leakage which may indicate occupancy.

My neighbour's house will receive all the attention, their windows packed with silhouettes of black cats with hunched backs, a glaring full moon, witches on broomsticks, skeletons and impossibly big plastic spiders with black hairy legs dangling from lintels. They are prepared to have hoards of over-excited children playing trick or treat and will willingly administer an overdose of sickly sweets from large orange supermarket buckets.

One smirking group who dared to mention 'trick' had eggs dropped on them from a bedroom window one year. Retaliation resulted in them having flour bombs hurled at them from the house. From the ensuing laughter I suppose they all had fun.

Meanwhile I am tucked away in subdued lighting, hearing every little crunch and clank, hoping that tonight I don't need to call an ambulance.

You can read more from Christine over on her blog, A Dangerous Age.

By Christine Human

Twitter: @adangerousage

thatbags Mon 31-Oct-16 22:59:04

Just read an email from my Mormon friends in Utah. Their... hang on while I count up... twelfth grandchild was born a day or so ago. They have bought what they are calling a Hallowe'en outfit for the new baby. It's a Mickey Mouse suit.

Would "Give me strength!" be an appropriate comment?

moon G'night, folks.

JackyB Tue 01-Nov-16 08:58:20

Although I'm English, we were often invited to Halloween parties back in the day by the Irish and Scottish families in the neighbourhood. So I think the first sentence "We Brits .." should read "We English..." Although, as has been said, the way Halloween is "celebrated" nowadays has very little to do with the ducking for apples and fun we had at those parties.

My DDiL, being German, also has a dislike for the way the American style Halloween has been foisted on us. Until she went to live in America herself. It would seem that all the bad stuff has come back over the Atlantic, stripped of the real fun and family party ideas that the Americans have.

They carve pumpkins and dress up and everyone is out on the street in the evening. All the houses are elaborately and lovingly decorated - the garages are flung open and filled with ghosts and cobwebs and it's a real street fest with barbecues and games for the kids. Of course, the sweets and plastic decorations are on sale in the shops, but this is only a small part of the whole Halloween thing and she has now been there for 2 Halloweens and had a lovely time with DGS.

Then of course, there is the Pumpkin Patch - great fun for the toddlers and even up to 10-year-olds, and wonderful for photos with everyone in bright orange tee shirts.

Hippywitch64 Tue 01-Nov-16 09:19:19

Some of the comments regarding Samhain have been quite hurtful as a practising witch. Ive tried to give this site a go but tbh i think its not for me at all. Brightest blessings and goodbye )0(

annodomini Tue 01-Nov-16 09:20:20

When we were young we made our own Halloween costumes - ghosts were swathed in bed sheets, of course! And we made our own masks held on with knicker elastic. We toured friends, relations and neighbours - 'Please for my Halloween' - and received fruit and sweets, sometimes a sixpence. At Halloween parties we 'dooked' for apples, kneeling on a chair, with a fork between our teeth and tried to spear the apples floating in the old zinc bath. Scones, dripping with black treacle were suspended on strings and, hands behind our backs, we had to get a bite, or even a whole scone. Lanterns were made from large swedes, not those alien pumpkins.
Yes, it was fun in Scotland 70 years ago and completely un-commercial.

notanan Tue 01-Nov-16 09:27:50

Well I found last night's trick or treating really heart warming! Faceless houses that we walk past every day but never meet the owners were opened up - neighbours meeting for the first time, all generations having fun together.

That's what I love about halloween & trick or treaters - it's a holiday for neighbours. Christmas is for family, Easter is for church if you're that way inclined, or family holidays if you're not. But Halloween is for getting to know neighbours you've never met before, and having fun with the ones you already know!

Looking forward to next year already!

Halloween (and trick or treating) isn't going anywhere folks! Judging by how many people were out enjoying it last night and opening up their homes to welcome neighbours - it's on the up and up - yay! grin

vampirequeen Tue 01-Nov-16 09:58:06

Which comments happywitch. I've seen people complaining about trick or treating in it's modern form. That doesn't comply with Samhain celebrations, does it?

The celebration of Samhain or tradition with similar meaning across a range of cultures goes back deep into time, doesn't it?

I'm sorry you feel your beliefs have been unfairly treated on this thread. I'm sure it wasn't the intention of anyone to upset you. Paganism is a belief system that respects all faiths and it's sad if we didn't respect yours.

Karyt7 Tue 01-Nov-16 10:38:22

HALLOWEEN PUMPKIN CONTEST
WIN A PRIZE: iPhone 7 Plus | Nikon D3400 | Samsung Tab A
www.follol.com/halloween-pumpkin-contest/

paddyann Tue 01-Nov-16 10:58:06

its NOT an American import its been celebrated in Scotland and Ireland for centuries ...even before America existed.certainly my granny born 1888 and her mother born in the 1840's had brilliant Hallowe'en tales to tell .Its just more commercialised with the American influence but its definately OUR tradition

notanan Tue 01-Nov-16 11:15:01

regardless of the fact that I don't think it's a new thing (i trick or treated as a child and my parents handed down their halloween traditions: apple bobbing etc)

.. why does "American" = bad, we import a lot of great ideas: coffee and tea drinking (of which I'm a BIG fan) for one.. why are we so anti anything that comes from america? I'm not the biggest fan of american culture but they do have some good ideas that are worth noting

vampirequeen Tue 01-Nov-16 12:57:49

It's not being American that makes it bad, it's the commercialism that has taken it over. And why pumpkins? My dad always hollowed out a swede which we knew then as turnip.
The shops have only got involved in the last few years with all the decorations, dressing up clothes etc. That's what I object to.

Has anyone ever seen the Love Day episode of the Simpson's?

www.bing.com/videos/search?q=simpsons+love+day&view=detail&mid=EC7B7E4731AF9BF162FAEC7B7E4731AF9BF162FA&FORM=VIRE

I think it sums up the commercial aspect that has been brought into all sorts of celebrations. It's not about celebrating anymore but about buying stuff.

notanan Tue 01-Nov-16 13:07:15

Well its as commercial as you make it like anything else. Nothings stopping anyone using a sweede but personally we love going to the local pick your own for a pumpkin, I love the autumney colour of them.

We do a lot of autumney crafts for our halloween decorations but I do like the option of getting halloweeney disposable plates and cups if we're having a gathering.

The shops are stocking the stuff because people are buying it, I can think of worse things to spend my hard earned money on than a festivity that brings people together.

I do a mix of shop bought and home made, but we do keep our decorations and some of our shop bought halloween decorations we've had since DD1 was a toddler, so it's not disposed of after one use.

It's the same as Christmas, it can be commercial but that's not what it's about, I've done some DIY christmases when life/work has allowed, other years I go for convenience of shop bought. I like having the option.

vampirequeen Tue 01-Nov-16 13:13:34

I think the problem is the cynical advertising at aimed at children. Parents feel bad if they don't join in because they don't want their child to be left out. I know they should make the decision but these days peer pressure and keeping our children happy seems to be the way parenting goes.

I don't think there should be any advertising aimed at children or on children's television but that's me going off topic lol

AlieOxon Tue 01-Nov-16 13:15:54

I could happily do without ads altogether, I just get irritated, and wonder what manipulation is going on and what effect it has on everyone.....

notanan Tue 01-Nov-16 13:30:42

those ads'll happen with our without halloween, same companies would have same amount of ads aimed at children even if they didn't get to use the halloween theme.

For me, doing halloween for my own kids (as it was done for me when I was a kid) is one of those little things you day dream about when you're hoping to get pregnant, like introducing your kids to your sport/hobbies or doing santa for them etc

AlieOxon Tue 01-Nov-16 15:59:23

It just isn't like it was though.....

notanan Tue 01-Nov-16 16:30:03

It just isn't like it was though…..

The most important parts are: neighbours getting together, cross generational community fun, creativity and artistic expression, a safe exploration of morbid themes, celebration of the season, brightening up the darkening evenings..

And loads of people on my facebook did traditional apple bobbing this year and toilet roll mummies (another one from my childhood), we didn't because we went to town on the facepaints grin but encorperated lots of traditions with our own twists

It's a celebration that allows a lot of creative freedom, it doesn't have to be the same every year

middleagespread Fri 25-Nov-16 14:47:51

Well, I've been away too long. On Halloween I was living in caravan between houses and have only just got down to reading all the comments. It's been great to see all the differing views. But now I'm back and Gransnet is giving my titbits of all sorts of things I might miss. Thank you all for looking at my article.smile

middleagespread Fri 25-Nov-16 14:49:59

tanith that sounds fun.

middleagespread Fri 25-Nov-16 14:51:19

thank you marrow, and I too got caught up in it whilst helping grandchildren cut our oranges for a party - different but fun.

middleagespread Fri 25-Nov-16 14:52:33

brush well - ha made me laugh smile

middleagespread Fri 25-Nov-16 14:55:35

roses are red love the idea of your Pumpkin figure, you made me smile.

middleagespread Fri 25-Nov-16 14:59:33

notanan what a great way you have found of meeting neighbours. Well done