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LucyGransnet (GNHQ) Thu 17-Nov-16 10:42:52

The wrong kind of refugee?

In recent years, the world has witnessed a refugee crisis that has forced more than a million men, women and children to flee the brutal violence in their own countries. Yet despite the life-threatening situations they face, these refugees (including children) have often been met with a degree of suspicion and fear in the nations they have escaped to.

Author Barbara Fox, whose own mother was evacuated from inner-city Newcastle as a child, wonders what the difference between Britain's long-ago children and today's refugees is?

Barbara Fox

The wrong kind of refugee?

Posted on: Thu 17-Nov-16 10:42:52

(999 comments )

Lead photo

Are today's refugees really any different?

When I read a headline recently about the outrage of a 'picturesque' village to which 70 'child migrants' were to be sent, I was reminded of another time in our history when places in the countryside were obliged to welcome strangers into their midst.

Back in 1940 when she was six years old, my mother, Gwenda, and her older brother, Doug, were among the hundreds of thousands of children who left their inner-city homes and were evacuated to the countryside to escape the German bombs.

Gwenda's main memory of her journey from Newcastle to the Lake District centres round the banana she was given to eat by her mother – the last she was to see for several years. A teacher ordered the children to sit on their bags, and consequently, when Gwenda came to unpack later, she found squashed banana over all her belongings.

On arrival in the pretty village of Bampton they were lined up in the church hall while the villagers came to choose who they wanted. Yes, it does seem unbelievable that that was how the evacuees were billeted to their families! You might imagine that Gwenda and Doug – clean, nicely dressed children - would have been snapped up first (they would surely be the refugees that no one would protest about today!). But actually, that was not the case. Gwenda was the youngest child there as she was tagging along with Doug and his class of nine-year-olds - their mother had insisted that the pair should not be separated. Consequently, the locals were expecting older children, and someone of Gwenda's size probably didn't look very useful in this farming community.

Were these home-grown children that our rural communities welcomed back then really so different from the oft-maligned refugee children today?


Gwenda and Doug were the only children left when the wife of the village headmaster arrived. As the mother of two sons, she had to be persuaded to take a girl. However, she relented, and so the children went home with her. They would spend three happy years living in the schoolhouse and Gwenda would keep in touch with the couple she called 'Aunty' and 'Uncle' for the rest of their lives.

The following year, in more desperate circumstances, Bampton opened its doors to another influx of children, this time from the shipbuilding town of Barrow-in-Furness.

Undoubtedly thousands of lives were saved by this evacuation of the nation's children, and indeed, Gwenda and Doug's own street in Newcastle was bombed.

Britain also welcomed refugees from Europe, including thousands of Jewish children who might otherwise have perished.

Were these home-grown children that our rural communities welcomed back then really so different from the oft-maligned refugee children today? I would go so far as to say that the inner-city children who turned up in Bampton were often just as alien to their rural hosts as the foreign newcomers seem to be to the 'picturesque' village dwellers. But equally, both could teach something to the other.

Those harking back to 'when Britain was great' perhaps forget that it was also characterised by our opening our doors to those in need.

When the War Is Over by Barbara Fox, the story of Gwenda’s wartime evacuation, is published by Sphere and is available from Amazon.

By Barbara Fox

Twitter: @Gransnet

rosesarered Thu 05-Jan-17 11:21:49

Typo...It is a rude and lazy argument.

whitewave Thu 05-Jan-17 11:24:57

pogs the best thing is to ignore name calling and do as you say and try to put forward as best argument you can to disprove someone else's argument. It's a good mental workout and quite a challenge sometimes to keep my tone and language as civilised as possible, but good for my soul I thinkgrin

We are probably on different sides but I like to think that we are able to talk amiably to each other on other subjects.

whitewave Thu 05-Jan-17 11:26:52

Of course as I am on the other side I can see that your side is also guilty of that as well!! Frustrating isn't it?

POGS Thu 05-Jan-17 11:51:54

WW

'On the other side'.

I always thought you were an angel. wink

[maybeafallenangelwhohadabangonthebonce]

rosesarered Thu 05-Jan-17 12:10:34

Is that the dark side ww grin may the force be with you.

whitewave Thu 05-Jan-17 13:49:14

I'm no angel believe me!!!!! Yes rose definitely the dark side.

POGS Thu 05-Jan-17 19:27:43

I

POGS Thu 05-Jan-17 19:29:51

Oops

Thought I had cleared message meant for another thread.

As you were.

durhamjen Tue 10-Jan-17 18:53:03

www.freedomfromtorture.org/content/9288

Even refugees who have been tortured are disbelieved, despite the evidence.

durhamjen Thu 12-Jan-17 20:45:11

webmail.amnesty.org.uk/_act/link.php?mId=J9187223391817411825428806362918&tId=222935363&subjId=95813

To ask the EU to move refugees and asylum seekers from the Greek islands where they will be freezing to death.

Mair Fri 13-Jan-17 16:49:54

"where they will be freezing to death"

Even Amnesty's hystrical 'wave 'em all in' propaganda more cautiously only suggests they "could" freeze to death!
(Your link)grin

But no they won't! A rare fall of snow in Lesbos last week has cleared and no more forecast either! Its pretty rare in the Greek islands!
Sunshine and rain.

www.holiday-weather.com/lesbos/forecast/

Of course there is always a chance that some of the majority who are just economic migrants might even be put off Europe by a few chilly nights and return home, but sadly I doubt it. sad

Jalima Fri 13-Jan-17 18:29:16

Have you been to Greece in the winter?

There are 2.7 million Syrian refugees in Turkey; some are in tents, others have slightly better accommodation. It gets freezing cold in Turkey at this time of year - would anyone like to walk around in the snow with no socks, no shoes as some children are having to do?

My friend has just posted that she is in touch with a refugee family who have five children - and have just taken in another five children who have no parents - and only the clothes they stand up in and no shoes.
She is trying to help.

JessM Fri 13-Jan-17 18:49:33

Temperature at sea level is very different to temperature inland and in elevated positions. And refugees are in all kinds of locations, not on beaches. But frankly, I would not fancy a winter camping holiday in a Greek or Turkish resort - even with warm clothes and equipment.
Is there no crumb of compassion in your heart for these people Mair?
Or do you think Save the Children are making things up?
www.savethechildren.net/article/families-stranded-freezing-temperatures-balkans

Eloethan Fri 13-Jan-17 18:50:36

Mair Well, if it's all so pleasant and comfortable, perhaps you'd like to exchange places with one of them - or see your own family in such a predicament.

Mair Fri 13-Jan-17 19:50:20

Lets just look at a few facts about Greeces winter climate (no its not Turkey), rather than people making assumptions based on a one off winter holiday.

Of course I am not suggesting that living in a tent in winter is easy, even for the strong young men who form the vast majority of the immigrants.

But:
Athens first

Although January is on average the coldest month in Athens, its temperatures are mild and can be a welcome escape from the freezing winters of northern Europe. The average temperature this month is 10°C (50°F), while the average low is 7°C (45°F), and the average high is 13°C (55°F)

Now lets look at a few islands:
Rhodes - Eastern Med

January is the wettest month of the year in Rhodes, with an average of 14 days of rain throughout the month. Average monthly amount of precipitation is around 135 mm, which is about 5 inches. Throughout the month you can expect to see rain or drizzle falling on 11 days of the month.
On sunny days in January the temperature may rise as high as to 18°C, but the average daily temperature usually sits around 15°C. Rhodes experiences on average 5 hours of sunshine per day this month,

And Lesbos where the reports of snow come from
Winters in Lesbos don’t get particularly cold, especially on the coast. As you head up the mountains to higher altitudes however, temperatures drop and snow is often recorded. The snow very rarely survives in the low lying coastal towns. The average temperature throughout December is 12°C, falling to 10°C in January and February.

Winter is the island’s rainy season, with rainfall at its peak in December. November, January and February also record high rainfall, with January being the second wettest month after December. While this is the wet season there is still plenty of sunshine as after showers the sky clears.

I very much doubt immigrant camps are in the mountains: in all the news stories they are very near towns (and the locals complaining).

But anyway those worrying themselves about this can rest assured the snow flurry will quickly pass!
www.holiday-weather.com/lesbos/forecast/

55'F tomorrow and rain, so mild then.
Sunday sunny
Well look for yourself.

Of COURSE charities working there will always exaggerate the alleged 'horror' of conditions to persuade people to give money.
That is what charities have to do to pay their staff!

Nothing is stopping those of you who believe these reports from making generous donations.

Mair Fri 13-Jan-17 20:02:06

Mair Well, if it's all so pleasant and comfortable, perhaps you'd like to exchange places with one of them - or see your own family in such a predicament.

I did not say its "pleasant and comfortable" I said they were not going to "freeze to death".
Most are strong young men and most are economic migrants not refugees, so no I do not feel sorry for them. Not even the Syrians were all 'forced' to flee. Many choose to remain; its only the wealthier ones can afford to pay smugglers to get them to the EU!

If you feel so sorry for them why dont you swop places? Think what a documentary that would make for the BBC:

British Gran swops places with Syrian migrant. grin

whitewave Fri 13-Jan-17 20:05:04

Apparently this is the coldest winter Greece has experienced in a decade. The biggest worry is the elderly- I wouldn't survive a night and DH with heart condition would have expired immediately - and children. Imagine if you have a baby under a year how worrying it would be. You wonder really how much suffering a human can stand. Imagine the horror from which they have fled, the terror of the sea crossing, the realisation that nobody wants to help (and we call ourselves a Christian country) the despair of being stuck in a camp and now the daily fight to remain alive in the bitter weather.

Mair Fri 13-Jan-17 20:17:05

In fact the camp that DJ links to isnt even on an island, and nor are they 'refugees'.

Its Elliniko camp Athens which is used as a holding camp for Afghans who are NOT refugees! They are given a choice of help to go home or being moved to Turkey and applying individually for asylum from there.

Many of them however seem to think its their right to come to Europe!
Like nineteen-year-old Suheil Rahimi:
"I know the border won't open, but I'm stubborn. I won't return to Afghanistan. That's not an option for me. I will use a smuggler," he insists.

Mair Fri 13-Jan-17 20:17:57

Link
www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2016/10/greece-afghan-refugees-elliniko-face-camp-closure-161003090329416.html

whitewave Fri 13-Jan-17 20:28:42

A Greek politician , visited one of these camps and announced that in his opinion it was on a par to Dachau.

Mair Fri 13-Jan-17 20:31:25

Well since theyre choosing to remain there his comparison was hardly apposite , was it?

whitewave Fri 13-Jan-17 20:39:18

An American pediatrician reported today, that the ( poor souls)are without any form of human dignity. Their tents have collapsed under the weight of snow, and where the temperature has risen the tents are now standing in pools of water. All their clothes and bedding is wet through and she reports seeing shivering human beings with no ability to dry their clothes.

whitewave Fri 13-Jan-17 20:47:28

I would also like to point out in case of doubt that the refugees can't leave the camps until they've been processed. (Hate that word) I was also astounded to read that they have frostbite. How cold must you be for that to happen?

JessM Fri 13-Jan-17 21:31:44

Relieved that Mair is not finding much of an audience for his/her heart hearted determination to paint all refugees as evil would-be invaders of our shores.
Maybe its because most of us are parents and grandparents with the capacity to empathise with the plight of families and young people in desperate circumstances.

Mair Fri 13-Jan-17 22:32:49

"...Mair is not finding much of an audience for his/her heart hearted determination to paint all refugees as evil would-be invaders of our shores..^

"Evil"? Your words not mine Jess.

"Economic migrants", yes.
Determined to live in Europe regardless of whether Europe wants or can cope with them, yes.

Empathy for their reluctant Greek hosts might be more appropriate
www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9yDf7uIDQo

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