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LucyGransnet (GNHQ) Thu 17-Nov-16 10:42:52

The wrong kind of refugee?

In recent years, the world has witnessed a refugee crisis that has forced more than a million men, women and children to flee the brutal violence in their own countries. Yet despite the life-threatening situations they face, these refugees (including children) have often been met with a degree of suspicion and fear in the nations they have escaped to.

Author Barbara Fox, whose own mother was evacuated from inner-city Newcastle as a child, wonders what the difference between Britain's long-ago children and today's refugees is?

Barbara Fox

The wrong kind of refugee?

Posted on: Thu 17-Nov-16 10:42:52

(999 comments )

Lead photo

Are today's refugees really any different?

When I read a headline recently about the outrage of a 'picturesque' village to which 70 'child migrants' were to be sent, I was reminded of another time in our history when places in the countryside were obliged to welcome strangers into their midst.

Back in 1940 when she was six years old, my mother, Gwenda, and her older brother, Doug, were among the hundreds of thousands of children who left their inner-city homes and were evacuated to the countryside to escape the German bombs.

Gwenda's main memory of her journey from Newcastle to the Lake District centres round the banana she was given to eat by her mother – the last she was to see for several years. A teacher ordered the children to sit on their bags, and consequently, when Gwenda came to unpack later, she found squashed banana over all her belongings.

On arrival in the pretty village of Bampton they were lined up in the church hall while the villagers came to choose who they wanted. Yes, it does seem unbelievable that that was how the evacuees were billeted to their families! You might imagine that Gwenda and Doug – clean, nicely dressed children - would have been snapped up first (they would surely be the refugees that no one would protest about today!). But actually, that was not the case. Gwenda was the youngest child there as she was tagging along with Doug and his class of nine-year-olds - their mother had insisted that the pair should not be separated. Consequently, the locals were expecting older children, and someone of Gwenda's size probably didn't look very useful in this farming community.

Were these home-grown children that our rural communities welcomed back then really so different from the oft-maligned refugee children today?


Gwenda and Doug were the only children left when the wife of the village headmaster arrived. As the mother of two sons, she had to be persuaded to take a girl. However, she relented, and so the children went home with her. They would spend three happy years living in the schoolhouse and Gwenda would keep in touch with the couple she called 'Aunty' and 'Uncle' for the rest of their lives.

The following year, in more desperate circumstances, Bampton opened its doors to another influx of children, this time from the shipbuilding town of Barrow-in-Furness.

Undoubtedly thousands of lives were saved by this evacuation of the nation's children, and indeed, Gwenda and Doug's own street in Newcastle was bombed.

Britain also welcomed refugees from Europe, including thousands of Jewish children who might otherwise have perished.

Were these home-grown children that our rural communities welcomed back then really so different from the oft-maligned refugee children today? I would go so far as to say that the inner-city children who turned up in Bampton were often just as alien to their rural hosts as the foreign newcomers seem to be to the 'picturesque' village dwellers. But equally, both could teach something to the other.

Those harking back to 'when Britain was great' perhaps forget that it was also characterised by our opening our doors to those in need.

When the War Is Over by Barbara Fox, the story of Gwenda’s wartime evacuation, is published by Sphere and is available from Amazon.

By Barbara Fox

Twitter: @Gransnet

Eloethan Fri 13-Jan-17 23:00:32

I think it's quite possible to have empathy for them AND their Greek hosts.

We, and other European countries, were surely "economic migrants". We have in the past marched into foreign countries and subjugated their populations in order to use their countries' natural and human resources for our own benefit. How ironic that we now seek to demonise people who just want to get away from extreme violence and poverty and to have the chance to do what are often hard-to-fill jobs on low wages.

Jalima Fri 13-Jan-17 23:35:53

There may be some economic migrants but most are refugees fleeing war and terror.

Children are just so annoying when their feet grow and they only have a pair of flipflops, if that, to wear in the snow, especially when their mother can't march them off to Clark's and buy a new pair, possibly because she has no money, there is no shoe shop - or she may have been killed.

Your weather reports about from Greece sound as if they have come from a travel brochure Mair

Mair Sat 14-Jan-17 00:53:29

Elo said:

I think it's quite possible to have empathy for them AND their Greek hosts
But their needs are not mutually compatible.
Its also possible to understand why the migrants wish to come without agreeing that we should concede to their demands.

We, and other European countries, were surely "economic migrants". We haveall in the past marched into foreign countries and subjugated their populations in order to use their countries' natural and human resources for our own benefit

"We" have done no such thing! Surely you are not suggesting all Europeans bear collective responsibility for terrible things that humans did in the past in very different ages and times?
Or are you suggesting "we" bear responsibility for things that some of our ancestral ethnic group did in historic times, that our biological links to our ancestors should charge us with guilt for their acts?

Or do you suffer personal guilt because your ancestors exploited others while mine (and most of ours I suggest) were peasant farmers making a meager living toiling the land or in coal mines, or like my OHs, fleeing the potato famine to work in England's dark satanic mills. I have no such guilt, but frankly even if your ancestors were old colonials ordering around their African 'boys'
YOU are not responsible for that! How far back does this nonsense of 'ethnic guilt' go? Should 'Romans' admit 'Cartheginians' to assuage their history?

How ironic that we now seek to demonise people who just want to get away from extreme violence and poverty

There is no demonisation, but it does not mean we should give in to their demands. We are all grandparents here and we should be protecting our country for our grandchildren and their children's safety and security just as our ancestors did for us. We are caretakers of our plot and we have a duty to them.

and to have the chance to do what are often hard-to-fill jobs on low wages

Hmmm youre on very weak ground here! So you APPROVE of low wages and exploiting immigrants, giving bad employers the surplus of cheap labour that they crave? shock

grannyactivist Sat 14-Jan-17 02:14:36

Mair I wonder if you (and other like minded folk) were to meet some of these young men you speak of whether your views might not change though. It's easier to hold a position about people in the abstract than it is to maintain that position in the face of real people, who can tell you real stories of their experiences. Is it too much to believe that if we have food, clothing and shelter then we're in the privileged position of having something to share with those who do not - yes, even if it means we have less? Compassion, kindliness and sharing are what we teach our children from a very young age; do we expect more from our children than we, as a society, are willing to do?

whitewave Sat 14-Jan-17 09:06:18

When living in the West Country with a young family, I used to take part in a scheme that gave children a holiday in the country. The children spent a couple of weeks in your house as a guest. I never specified the nationality, so had a complete mixture of nationalities, the majority being of white European origin. What you learn about these children would break your heart, and to turn your back on any child from wherever they come makes you less than human. In fact even animals will care for other young of their species. In my opinion to be able to turn a child away after looking them in the face and seeing the despair and hope shows a level of inhumanity that is beyond acceptable and normal behaviour.

Mair Sat 14-Jan-17 11:08:59

Grannyactivist

So now you attempt to manipulate an emotional response rather than looking at the situation rationally, even evoking memories of an entirely different experience involving actual children, and making the false assumption that these young adults all have similar back stories.

I am sure among these people there are a significant number who were left homeless due to fighting in Syria. I am less sure that even this group were left with no choice than to flee the country (remember most Syrians are still living there, most Syrians have large close family, the entire country is not bombed into the ground). I am also sure that Merkels welcome mat has encouraged many who otherwise would not be fleeing their homeland to take advantage of this window of opportunity to emigrate to Europe. She is thus responsible for encouraging the flows.

But also among these people are huge numbers from other countries, who are simply taking advantage and are effectively cheating their way to a better life in a richer and better run country than they one they came from. Now there is no harm in aspiring to emigrate, but if you wish to do so then you should use the proper channels and work hard to get the 'shortage skills' that wealthier countries want, just as we have to do if we want to emigrate to a country such as the USA or New Zealand. It is not a right to live where you please and expect the inhabitants of another country to contribute to your lifestyle.

I do not consider Britain should take in any of the current migrant tsunami. Britain has already donated more than any other EU country.

Mair Sat 14-Jan-17 11:13:13

Sorry Granny It was WW who evoked the memory of deprived kids taken on holidays, I misscrolled and thought both posts were yours! But my essential point still stands.

whitewave Sat 14-Jan-17 11:21:48

I rest my case

Mair Sat 14-Jan-17 11:54:29

You havent got one to rest WW. wink

JessM Sat 14-Jan-17 14:41:45

Carry on focussing on the least sympathetic scenario you can dream up Mair and sod the millions of Syrians that have fled the terror in their own country. Easier, obviously, to be judgemental about hypothetical migration-law dodgers than to worry about those in need of help. As you were.

Jalima Sat 14-Jan-17 14:58:00

I am less sure that even this group were left with no choice than to flee the country (remember most Syrians are still living there, most Syrians have large close family, the entire country is not bombed into the ground

Some Syrians support Assad.
The West encouraged rebel groups to rise up - remember the 'Arab Spring'? - for democracy!
The rebels rose up against the tyranny of Assad and got bombed and killed by Assad then Russia.
No, not all of Aleppo was bombed to the ground; the eastern half of the city was rebel-held (encouraged by the West then abandoned) and bombed, including innocent people and children.
Naturally, those being bombed and killed would like to escape.
Unfortunately, groups such as ISIS got in on the act and it all became very muddled and muddied.

I am sure if I have got it all wrong someone will correct me; just trying to put it as a straightforward precis to make it clearer to those who do not understand why people want to flee.

JessM Sat 14-Jan-17 17:29:10

After all, 5 million people don't suddenly decide to leave their businesses or jobs, gather up a few bags and move to another country, in the hopes of a place in a refugee camp, do they. Syria was a successful country with very high levels of education before Assad turned on his own people.
I know I have posted this link before, but the numbers keep rising. About half of them are under 18.
data.unhcr.org/syrianrefugees/regional.php

Mair Sat 14-Jan-17 18:22:55

Jess
We have been discussing migrants (including Syrians) who are coming to Europe not the families who have genuinely fled for safety to Turkey, and Lebanon, the nearest safe countries.

The migrants coming to the EU are disproportionately young men, only about half are actually Syrians, and most are from the wealthier classes. Many are opportunists. I wonder if you watched the BBC2 series Exodus. Now the BBC is extremely pro accepting migrants, and very sympathetic, but I wasnt impressed with the featured refugees (who were nevertheless clearly the 'best' they could find). The attitude of entitlement was quite shocking, as well as the cherry picking attitude to EU countries,and all were well off.

Britain, i.e. all of us,has been extremely generous in giving aid to genuine refugees in camps in Turkey and Lebanon, far more so than other wealthy EU countries, and far more than rich Muslim countries. If you dont feel thats enough then give more yourself.

whitewave Sat 14-Jan-17 19:19:08

I totally empathised with Joe Cox and her philosophy and attitude towards refugees.

Jalima Sat 14-Jan-17 20:39:27

An estimated 11 million Syrians have fled their homes since the outbreak of the civil war in March 2011. Now, in the sixth year of war, 13.5 million are in need of humanitarian assistance within the country. Among those escaping the conflict, the majority have sought refuge in neighbouring countries or within Syria itself. According to the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), 4.8 million have fled to Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt and Iraq, and 6.6 million are internally displaced within Syria. Meanwhile about one million have requested asylum to Europe. Germany, with more than 300,000 cumulated applications, and Sweden with 100,000, are EU’s top receiving countries.

durhamjen Sat 14-Jan-17 22:57:25

Last week I walked back from school with my grandson after taking his sister to school. As we came up the hill, it started to snow. He said, "Imagine if you were homeless or a Syrian refugee and you were outside in this weather."
No prompting from me.
I am so pleased that my grandson has more humanity in him than mair.

durhamjen Sat 14-Jan-17 23:19:35

I look at Accuweather. It gives the temperature, and the real feel because of wind and rain.
On Lesbos between now and Thursday there is going to be nothing but rain, with the real feel down to 0 c.
I really wouldn't want anybody's children to be living like that, or anybody at all in tents and sleeping bags.
But that's okay, mair, you just carry on justifyimg yourself, and making yourself appear more unfeeling.

Mair Sat 14-Jan-17 23:23:10

"and 6.6 million are internally displaced within Syria"

Underlining my point. Its not all smashed to smithereens and they are not forced to actually leave the country, still less put themselves in the hands of criminal smugglers to come to the EU.

Britain was heavily bombed in WW2 but only a handful of the rich ran of to the USA!

cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/full-width/images/2015/09/blogs/graphic-detail/20151003_wom001.png

I notice Israel and Saudi, none! Now I wouldnt expect Israel to take Muslims, but why not the Assyrian Christian minority? Those who want Britain to step up are strangely silent about the reluctance of those geographically and culturally better placed to help. And as for Saudi, well say no more. They even have the confortable facilities at the Haj camp

Britons should be questioning what the true agenda of the 'wave 'em all in' propagandists really is. Its sad that some genuinly soft hearted but non political people are being tricked by th guilt tripping.

Eloethan Sun 15-Jan-17 00:28:49

What do you think the "true agenda* is then?

durhamjen Sun 15-Jan-17 01:16:52

"Wave 'em all in," eh?
How many have we taken? Who is being tricked?
Tricked into feeling sorry for people who have lost everything? Something really bad must have happened to you, mair, for you to have lost all humanity. Nothing else could explain your lack of feeling for others.

Jalima Sun 15-Jan-17 15:25:53

It's a bit warmer here today, about 11C

But I would not want to go camping. Even Bear Grylls nips off to a nice hotel when the cameras stop rolling, so I've heard.

The Children's Overseas Reception Board (CORB) was a British government sponsored organisation.[1] The CORB evacuated 2,664 British children from England, so that they would escape the imminent threat of German invasion and the risk of enemy bombing in World War II. This was during a critical period in British history, between July and September 1940, when the Battle of Britain was raging, and German invasion forces were being amassed across the English Channel.

The children were sent mainly to the four Dominion countries, Canada 1,532 (in nine parties), Australia 577 (three parties), New Zealand 202 (two parties), and South Africa 353 (two parties), but also some to the USA. In the first few months over 211,000 children[2] were registered with the scheme. A further 24,000 children had been approved for sailing in that time and over 1,000 volunteer escorts, including doctors and nurses, enrolled. It was planned as a temporary exile for the children, to return home to their families when conditions permitted.

Not just the rich then.

Just because there are displaced people still in Syria does not mean they are living in nice houses - many are living in tents there too.

Eloethan Sun 15-Jan-17 17:18:28

You still haven't explained what you feel the "true agenda" is Mair.

Mair Sun 15-Jan-17 17:28:41

Open borders Eloethan, the end of nation states and one world governance. It's a goal of both international communists and the multinationals and bankers.

whitewave Sun 15-Jan-17 17:30:16

grin

whitewave Sun 15-Jan-17 17:36:35

Just imagine "world president" what will it be called? I know "didn't see it coming because we didn't listen to mair.

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