Very noble Jess and you might add "and don't worry about your sisters being captured and raped by ISIS because they're only women?"

That was badly worded I think. Let me start again.

What would you say to your grandson if he asked 'and what about my sisters?'

Well that's the trouble with making up stories to justify your opinion isn't it Anya - you can construct any scenario you like to deal with the cognitive dissonance. Oh that story doesn't fit - suddenly my lad has sisters....
Those young lads in Calais don't engage my sympathy - they are definitely not worthy of sympathy or sanctuary, hum, but I am not a mean or ungenerous person, so I'll make up a story to make myself feel better about that opinion. They are actually selfish, cowardly little so-and-sos.

Actually I don't think that at all.

I posted a badly worded first post. My second was addressing the very real issue of the young women left behind. Are they any less important than the young men. Why shouldn't they be encouraged to flee too?

I find your reply rude. You have not listened, really listened to my point. I have never ever suggested these young men are 'selfish, cowardly little so-and-sos' - how dare you.

This is just the sort of post that ruins debate. I am shocked and disappointed Jess.

Now who's making up stories?
We don't have to continue in this nasty confrontational way. Its all bad. There is no correct solution.
However, I'll ask again , why the headlong rush West? Why not go to the wealthy arab countries -Dubai, UAE, Saudi? I know you'll say they're the wrong sort of Muslims but surely its all still Islam and should be as welcoming as Christian countries are supposed to be.
Note-not looking for an argument, just putting forward a thought.

Cross posts. I was commenting on JessM's post.

Anya was not getting at you but my post applies to many I think. Of course one should be be concerned about those left behind. But there is little that can be done to hep them. Whereas offering sanctuary to more refugees of all ages and genders is something this country could so easily do.
I think we all have judgemental thoughts sometimes about someone (or a group of someones) in the news and we also probably all make up stories to justify those thoughts sometimes. There are, I'm sure you will agree, a lot of people making judgemental remarks about young male refugees.
Jane10 millions have fled from Syria into the surrounding countries. I've posted a link to this before.
data.unhcr.org/syrianrefugees/regional.php
You will see that some have headed further east to Iraq. However if one considers the map, there is an awful lot of desert between the near Middle East and the Gulf States. So unless you have money for an air ticket, and a passport and correct paperwork so that you can get on a plane, they are about as accessible to Syrians as Australia.

A slightly more balanced post than your first one Jess although there is still a lot about this 'making up stories' stuff, when in fact, you made up your own story (with the Mother/Grandmother urging the young man to go).
In fact, there will be no 'one' scenario to fit all.

And with a completely different culture, you can't impose Western thinking.

Many young men left France when it was over-run in 1940, and joined up with foreign armies who were still fighting, or they worked in other occupations until they could rejoin their families. Many others stayed behind, a lot of them venishing from their homes and taking to the hills with the Maquis to fight from within. We talk of the bravery of those who spent winters camping out and making guerilla raids on occupying forces, risking losing their lives in the process. That doesn't mean we automatically lump all the others into one box labelled "cowards". But we are justified in wondering what is happening to those unable to travel.

To return to my snow/soot analogy - someone mentioning a patch of grey among the sparkling snow does not deserve to be told they are blackening the whole picture by pointing it out.

There are many reasons for a young man to leave behind his home and family. There may be other family members to look after the women and children, or they may be already marked as troublemakers. Some of the reasons are more valid and pressing than others, just as some of those young men are heroes and some are not. They are all human beings, as varied as the rest of us, they have no monopoly on either bravery or cowardice.

Elegran - good point about the young men who left France during WW2. The main reason was a law passed by the Germans in ?1943 that all young french men still at home would be forced to go to Germany to work in their munitions factories. As all the German youth had been drafted into their army. Many did go, but others tried to avoid it.
I wonder if there's a fear of the same kind of thing among Syrian youth?

Also a good point about the ones who hid and joined the Maquis. Extremely dangerous and brave.

And Polish men came to the UK and joined our RAF etc during WW2.

and the Polish medical school came over to Edinburgh.

And the Polish troops who were billeted in the Church Hall in our village. We unveiled a plaque in their memory on the war memorial this summer, with the Polish Consul General and many of their Polish/Scottish descendants in attendance. Many of these young soldiers lost their families left behind in Poland and started new lives here. There were 4 children with Polish Surnames in my Primary 1 class.

All so much more organised than the current headlong rush. Its amazing how it was all managed in those days with so much less sophisticated communications available.

Elegran, TriciaF and Jane10, very good points about remembering that Frenchmen left occupied France for England to avoid obligatory service in Germany from 1942. It does make one reflect further on the issue.

However in 1942-44, it was not only young men who fled but able-bodied men aged 16-50 as that was the age span conscripted for deportation to German factories and farms; some came to the UK, some fled to the hills and joined the Maquis.

Children were not amongst those fleeing a war-torn France, unlike today's migrants.

It is common for men to travel/leave home to find work, build up a base and then send for families to follow.It has happened throughout history. The difficulty in paying for passage/food/ shelter etc. is tremendous for one person never mind a family. Often the youth are those under threat of forced military action or capture and their mothers send them away for protection in the hope they escape and can save the rest. It is a terrible situation for those who have fled and for those left behind. Very few make a choice like that lightly.
For my father it was hard enough and he and the family had a safe place to go to in England. But study/employment/integration were hard because of racism.

I do not believe you can compare the 39-45 refugee situation to todays refugee crisis.The WHOLE of Europe was under the dictatorship of someone who had ideas of obtaining a perfect world.Of course this country took in those poor people.Many years after the 39-45 war had ended I met a jewish lady who as a child had been in a concentration camp and when liberated was brought to GB. I saw the camp number tattooed on her arm she said she could not remember what her name had been she was too young to remember and she never saw her family again we can only think in horror what became of them.. I wept at her story.
When you believe there are thousands now risking the lives of children and babies in being selective as to where they want to come and live I think of that poor poor lady from a concentration camp glad to be anywhere that was safe from those who had destroyed her family and millions more like her. I will never forget her.What she witnessed would stay with her for ever I often wonder what became of her.

They are not being selective as to where they want to come. They want to escape from anywhere connected with the religion that abuses or kills them. There really is very little point in escaping from Syria to go to Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Iraq or Iran.
They want to come to the EU, and often to a place where they stand a chance of being understood. That's all.

Hope this link works:

wakingtimesmedia.com/20-million-muslims-march-isis-mainstream-media-completely-ignores/

Excellent article, Granny23.
The mainstream media is the rightwing media. It was in the Independent.
But like the article said, it's a pity it was ignored. It obviously does not fit in with their agenda.

A true Refugee would go to the first safe haven, want to work, thereby learning the language of the country that offered him sanctuary.. The economic refugee wants a good benefit system and many do not bother even learning the language, they come to this country because they see it as the ideal , then a lot set about trying to change it, trying to adopt the customs of the culture they have left behind. They have to fit in with us.it is smacking how many people say we should take more, but don't offer their empty rooms.

Don't be silly, luckylegs. How do you know how many people offer empty rooms?
A Syrian family wouldn't fit in my empty room. And there are no jobs in my village.
Many refugees do go to the first safe haven, but it's easy for the British to say that as we would have no refugees coming here at all, as we cannot be reached from any country from which refugees are fleeing, can we?

And there is so much work going in Greece! (not)
Economic migrants want to work and make a better life for themselves. The clue is in the word "economic". Many are well educated and skilled.