I loved my MiL. She was gentle, refined and very intelligent. My FiL,I was wary of. He was a bit touchy feely , if you get my meaning. So I never stayed alone with him if I could help it.

Loathe them.

What a lovely post Smetterling.

My ex mum in law passed away at the beginning of the month. I was married to her son for 17 years and she was a true and loving friend for 45. Best thing I did divorcing the son but keeping his mum x

Oh, the reasons thrown around for loathing, bizarre theories.

Why is it funny

Funny title, that. Loathe the in-laws!

That's interesting strugs and a few things you have filled in about the background to this suggest some various dynamics going on, which makes me feel it's not really your DIL who is blameworthy and responsible for your feeling left out.

Firstly you seem to have been very diffident in expressing your feelings to your son "a bit left out" when it seems youre actually really very upset. But your son did respond to this, albeit clumsily, and your DIL reciprocated, even though I think the majority of DILS would not want to be tied into seeing their MIL every week. Where there is a higher frequency of contact it's very often because the MIL is doing childcare for them, not because the DIL is just calling for a chat. It seems as though your son wasnt even involved in these contacts so the responsibility is falling to DIL. Could he facilitate contact by calling in at the weekend with the GD taking the burden off her?

The other thing is that MatGM seems like a very forceful character, probably worried that because they are so far away and you near that she risks being upstaged by you! You do after all see GD in RL with greater frequency than MatGM even though your time spent with her is less!

I wonder if in fact MatGM wasnt so obsessed and clingy, would you be happier? It may be that MatGM is even more involved than DIL really wants her to be but DIL loves her parents and doesn't want to upset her. Staying for so long and every month does sound excessive. It may reduce though when MatGM has other GCs, and DILs DCs get a bit older. Will they even have room to put them up for so long when they have two?

So ways of dealing. You could accept that seeing your GD once a fortnight, while not as often as you like , is still far more frequent than most GPs who live further away see their GCs. Your GD is happy coming to your house, and she doesnt have big gaps in which to become shy and more distant, congratulate yourself on your good relationship and enjoy it, viewing desperately clingy matgran as that and don't try to be like her. GD is not necessarily going to prefer her for it, in fact as she gets older she may even find the over frequent visits annoying as may your son, and he might put a stop to some of them.

You could ask your son to bring GD over, or invite the whole family over at the weekend for lunch occasionally. Your son needs to take responsibility for facilitating your contact by involving himself I think, not bulldozing his wife into scheduling you in when she is alone at home.

Lastly since so many local PatGrans who do have a lot of contact do so through childcare, would this be an option for you? Making yourself a useful unpaid carer is more likely to raise your value to DIL. You said she works part time, well would you be up for caring for the GD one of those days, saving them nursery fees? Do you offer evening babysitting so they can have a night out? Its not much fun in that GD is going to be in bed but youd probably get to go round a little early and do the bedtime story. Its also a way to see the whole family and get to know DIL better.

It would be interesting to see if any comments come from PatGrans who have been able to improve contact and relationship with DILs from a weak base. So often theyve either been lucky and hit it off and seem a bit smug about it or theyre feeling very cut out and annoyed with DIL.

I did tell my son that I was feeling a bit left out as I was only seeing my GD for perhaps an hour or two once a fortnight or less, whilst PiL up for 5 day stay every month and go on Face Time every day. I remember that her mother had said I expect to see my grandchild once a month before her birth - they live a 4 hour drive away.
DS had said the Face Time was a bit intrusive even when Gd was eating her meals, they watch her. DS said that DiL likes things arranged and that is why he told me to come over with my diary as otherwise DiL will get things booked up. I felt I was fitted in as an after thought. That I found hurtful, not that she wants to organise her life in that way, but because she did not think of me as 'family.' I had always thought she regarded me as that.
After this 'meeting' I was scheduled in for some contact at least once or on occasion x 2 a week, such as going over to play with GD for 2 hours whilst she got on with work. If she did bring GD over here, sometimes she'd stay as well, using her lap top or phone, or have lunch, or leave GD for a session when she had any appointments. GD loves being here, just says Bye and runs in to play. I try to make DiL welcome, make her a drink etc., ask about her part-time work, but how do you build a relationship unless you spend time together? As I said, it was alright until the birth of GD, so that is why I was baffled.

"I think he realised - though did not say - that things were "unfair" and I was still left out of contact time "

Are you saying you haven't even spoken to your son openly about feeling left out? If you did then he could perhaps make more effort to include you when its daddycare time. Looking at this from a DILs viewpoint I know my own DD doesnt relish time spent with her in laws, not because she dislikes them at all, but simply because she doesn't have any real 'rapport' with her MIL so just doesn't especially enjoy doing something such as having Sunday lunch with them. She does it occasionally, but its a duty not a pleasure. However she has no issue with her DH taking the GC there for a visit while she enjoys some time off for example!
Maybe your DIL could feel similarly.

I am not sure that your son trying to pin his wife into a schedule was the most tactful approach actually, especially with you there. I can imagine it made her feel very pressurised. If he wants to fight your corner for you then he should speak to his wife when they are alone and remind her you love the GC too, just as much as her parents, and that you are being unfairly treated. If he doesnt care enough for you to do that , or if he feels that she has so much the upper hand over him that he is afraid of her, then including you more on daddycare time is the only other way he can help you, again if he cares enough and realises how sad this is making you. Also you dont say how often you actually spend time with the GC? Are you expecting too much? You should not expect that because she lives nearby she would call by frequently, as perhaps she would if her own mother were local! Thank goodness she's not hey?

Mair thank you for your supportive reply and friendly advice. I did try speaking to her, offering any help anytime needed but eventually my DS told me to come over with a diary so we could definitely schedule time together as I think he realised - though did not say - that things were "unfair" and I was still left out of contact time ; DiL smiled sweetly and did it for a few minutes pencilling in things, then flounced out saying I thought we had finished - and returned a bit sullen when my DS said let's finish the month. I was made to feel really bad so don't feel I want to do this again. Things were good like that for a few months, then during her second pregnancy, it went back to the original situation.
I try to believe it is her hormones now.

Also strugglin, do her parents live much further away?
They might be making demands on your DIL to spend time with them imagining you being local get to see much more of them!

Strugglin
While your instinct is to go through your son of course, have you considered speakign directly to the DIL? I know its tricky but in a way that doesnt attack her. As in acknowledging that of course you understand that she feels closer to her own parents than you, but that the fact that her parents consequently get to see vastly more of the GCs than you do does make you very sad (not jealous or angry of course ). Reassure her that you know this isnt intentional on her part ( ) but that you love the GCs just as much as her parents do , and that you would like more involvement in their lives. Does this sound reasonable? You need to have ready some reasonable requests lined up should she act surprised and actually asks you what you would like.

glammamama - You've described my situation - it is identical! Difficult to cope with when her parents get such special treatment though, visiting to stay sometimes more than once a month, 5 days at a time...
I am useful for immediate help out for emergency baby-sitting but I know DS just wants to keep the peace. Is it control, manipulation of the situation by DiL or just thoughtlessness? I sometimes feel so tired of this situation and coping with my disappointment. When it suits them to bring my dear GD over and leave her, it is imperative she is picked up for her afternoon nap; when they take her out, amazingly this nap-time schedule isn't set in stone.

It's all about how different people can rub along together. I have given birth to andbrought up four very capable and caring sons but they have their own ideas about parenting. Modern parenting is a buzz word - whatever that is - parenting is parenting in my book. Some of the old (1960/70's) ways worked - not so strict - more caring - but there was still discipline and boundaries.

Sorry lounge....damn autocorrect

Not an easy one......My daughter in law makes the rules we all follow....Her parents are divorced so that is 2 households to compete with....She was home from Canada for 5 weeks.....Stayed with Dad.....Other granny and I had limited visits after friends mates party's...My son did not visit alone...No problem seeing child if we visited her dad's house.....Loved seeing her but we bite our youngest...Easiest way

Asle.
Why do you think men are so much more likely than women to be willing to abandon their family of origin and drawn almost totally into their wives family though?
It truly is, in many cases the old adage of: A sons your son till he gets a wife a daughters your daughter for the rest of your life.
It sometimes happen the other way but far more rarely, though I suspect even more painfully for the parents in this case.

I had three daughters-in-law and one son-in-law and only had a problem with one of the wives. I always made a point of praising all her achievements, going to all of her parties and even phoning her daily from abroad when her father was in hospital, but she did her best to take my son away from our family so they could concentrate on her parents, We all lived close to each other but they seldom called round together, and if my son came she would ring it she felt he had been here too long. Christmas was always spent with her family, despite my son suggesting that they should come here alternate years,

I know I shouldn't say it but I was quite relieved when they got divorced after almost 21 years (an old boy friend of hers came back from the USA and the rest, as they say, is history). He now has a lovely lady in his life, who made it quite clear that she wanted them both to be part of one another's families.

On Mumsnet, MILs get a frightful bashing

Why do you think it is that despite the old MIL jokes being told by men about their MILs, men seem on the whole to be far more laid back about their PILs than women are?

And its mainly MILs/Dils seem to feel the strains, rather than Fils/Sils?
Its largely a female problem.

ginny we live 3 hours away from one son. Whenever we go up to see them, and we have to make an appointment first in case they are doing something else, his mil always seems to 'pop round' to do things...Is this selfish?

Yes I think she does sound very selfish, and maybe insecure, rather as though she feels threatened by you and wants to stake out her place as Granny number one. Tbf though your DIL is not actively to blame for her behaviour, is she?

I dont think its anything to do with you guys not being trusted with the grandchildren, but all about dominance and territory.

I have DILs and SILs. I love the SILs and get on well with the DILS. I am so grateful to have daughters as I don't think having the first GC with a DIL would have been the same. We have had such fun. I do actively encourage the DDS to include their in laws as much as possible.
The difference is that I will always be my DDs Mother but the DILs have their own Mothers.

That is the way it is and I don't have any friends who think differently.

On Mumsnet, MILs get a frightful bashing. Everyone piles in, even though they have no experience of being a MIL, and have absolutely no idea what the experience is going to be like. If you try and be a bit more moderate regarding the relationship you get flamed and attacked. The arrogance of youth ! Actually being a MIL gives you a unique perspective? Doesn't it ?
Mostly Mumsnetters post replies from experience, but not when it comes to being MILs ( or not being MILs, actually) (grin)

Yorkshiregel - I could have written your post. DIL No 3 is the problem for me - fine with the other 2. Like you I try to please her or at least not upset her and my other DILs and friends tell me to stop pussy footing around her and I know they're right, but the dynamic is sort of set in concrete. Sometimes she talks to me like I'm under 5 and I say nothing and I'm NOT the sort of person to say nothing! I'm known for being direct. I wish I'd started off differently with her - my son does more or less everything in the house and with the kids and she just takes it all for granted.

My one DIL tells me that I don't need to be confrontational but just to say something back like "did you mean to sound so rude" just so that it registers with her, but it's like I'm struck dumb, when she insults me. My DH can see it but we keep the peace for our son who is very loyal and won't run her down. The granchildren (girls 7 and 9) are lovely and we have a good relationship with them.

Ho hum - I suppose 2 out of 3 isn't bad!

We have 4 children and have fairly regular contact with all of their inlaws. They all seem to love their own offspring, and grandchildren, which is the main thing. We're a bit strange, and so are some of them, so as Smileless says, we overlook the differences.
They're all fairly ordinary people, except for DS1's inlaws, who are very well-off. And sadly that sometimes worries him, as we can't compete. Not that they rub it in.