February book club - The Trouble With Goats and Sheep

ginnie

I enjoyed this book and found it very visual and real in the everyday details. I think that Joanna Cannon has a gift for making the words come alive and engaging all the senses. I could almost feel the stifling heat of that summer in 1976. I also love her clever use of metaphor, for example....'with a wind that bit scarlet into faces....' on page 271.
There are so many themes running through it......addiction, secrecy,
victimisation...... It was an interesting approach, sometimes humorous,
sometimes disturbing about a group of people forever drawn together by a deep secret which is hinted at throughout.
I'd like to ask Joanna why she decided to tell the story from the perspective of a child and about the religious element, searching for God, and how that relates to the rest of the story. I feel they must be linked, but I would need to read it again!
Once I started the book I couldn't put it down, but I was slightly disappointed by the rather abrupt end. There were some surprises....that it had been Mrs Morton who had taken the baby in 1967, for instance, but I was still left wondering. It is a book that I would like to read again!

I decided to have a child narrator for most of the story, because I wanted someone without an agenda to explain everything to the reader. All the neighbours have an agenda of some sort (some more than others!), but as a child, Grace sees the world without a filter, and I think that’s so important to present the characters as they truly are. However, I also love unreliable narrators, so a child was the perfect choice! I brought religion into the story, because I was looking at different ways communities are bonded together, and religion plays a huge part in that (whether you believe in God or not). I didn’t want the book to be preachy, though, and as Tilly says at the end of the story, it doesn’t really matter if it was Brian Clough or Jesus, it gave all the neighbours a common goal and showed they were capable of positive things given the right circumstances. Searching for God was a way Grace could take us around The Avenue (and into all of the houses), but it was also a chance to show that you can find God (or faith, or love) in the most unlikely places. Even on a drainpipe.

baNANAGran3

Phew - last day to review. I have not got to the very end, partly because I was reading a long book when this one arrived so I started a bit late in the month. (I somehow cannot cope with reading two books at once). However, I'm really enjoying the three quarters read so far. The narrative suits the period very well and there are many references that take you right back to that hot summer. I would like to know from where the idea of the story came and a small point, a map of the numbers of the houses in The Avenue at the front of the book would have been a good reference, I have to keep going backwards to find out exactly where people live in relation to each other - but maybe that's just me!

Finally, while the print of the book is lovely (big!) I hope that physically large sized books don't become too fashionable because they are a bit unwieldy while reading in bed and to take away travelling. Sorry, this is being picky and not meant to take away from what is an unusual and very enjoyable novel. Thank you GN and Joanna Cannon.

(Sorry if I've repeated, not read all the reviews as don't want to know the ending!)

Yes, the idea was mainly from my work as a psychiatrist and from the media treatment of Chris Jefferies, plus my own interest in the strange criteria we all use to decide if someone fits in or not! You are definitely not alone in requesting a map! Although it’s not so important who lives in which houses, I think the human brain automatically searches for visual order of some sort, so we’re looking at putting a map into the paperback!

annemac101

I've not finished this yet but I wanted to put something here before the end of the month. I have followed the author's blog for a few years not and the content in it is so lovely it always had me in tears. I always knew she would one day write a book but this was not the kind of book I expected her to write. I know this book is about mental health problems and fitting in to society which I expected it to be but it is done in such a subtle way which is very clever. I am enjoying the story and Joanna has such a lovely way with words which she uses through the story. Grace really made me laugh she had such funny ideas. I know there was many salutes to the seventies, I just thought at times there was maybe too many. If I could ask Joanna a question it would be, where did the idea come from for the story.Was it from the goats and sheep from the bible or did the story in your head then lead to that quote? Right I'm off to finish the book now.

The story definitely came first! I decided to write about belonging and being accepted, and how people often present different versions of themselves in order to fit in. I also wanted to write about how powerful communities can be, both negatively and positively. I’d been reading about people in history who had been persecuted for being “different”, and when I asked around for examples, someone said, “what about Jesus?”. Religion is such a powerful bond (whether you believe in God or not), and the idea of goats and sheep slowly began to take shape in my mind.

Maggiemaybe

I just loved this book for so many reasons - the evocative depiction of the 70s and particularly our long hot Summer, Grace's voice which to me was spot-on for a rather precocious child of that age, the character of the much-underestimated Tilly, the interwoven tales of intrigue and loss in that narrow community and yes, the big print (a treat for the eyes, though maybe not the shoulder when carrying it around!). For me, it is the best book I've read for ages.

My question to the author would be: I'm intrigued by the fact that in your 30s you went back to college, completed your A-levels and become a doctor, and that you got the idea for your first novel from the blog you started while working in hospitals. You're such a natural and gifted writer, did you not consider writing as a career from an early age?

That’s so kind, thank you! I’ve always written for my own entertainment – I think writing (and reading) are great ways of trying to understand the world, and to help us see things from a different perspective. I only started writing to show other people when I began my blog (and again, that was more to do with processing the things I saw as a junior doctor). I had such a lovely reaction, I decided to start writing a novel, but I had no idea it would ever escape from my laptop!

Purpledaffodil

I really enjoyed this book and there was some lovely use of language. "Widowhood wore a beige cardigan and said very little." Like others, I did find the ending a bit abrupt. Tilly miraculously recovered, Mrs Creasy reappeared, but visited the police first. What did she tell them? I should like to ask the author whether she intended readers to find their own ending and whether a sequel is planned?

Yes, that’s exactly right! I really wanted readers to make up their own minds about the ending, and who is to blame, although the clues are hidden in the story if anyone wants to know who started the fire. As a reader, I always think books that make you do a little work are much more satisfying and I’m not a huge fan of everything being tied up in a neat bow at the end! No plans for a sequel at the moment, but I wouldn’t rule anything out!

Shinyredcar

I seem to be an ungracious lone voice about this book. I did read it all (and in my dotage I have at last decided it is permissible not to finish something I am not enjoying!)

I found it very worrying as I read it, and then came to the Acknowledgement at the end, where the author thanks all the patients she worked with in the mental health field. There seemed to be no one in the book who was not suffering from some mental health problem, and I was concerned whether we were supposed to find them funny, annoying, strange, or what?

At a practical level, yes, the large size of the book was unusual and made it a bit of a handful, but the larger typeface it allowed it to use was a relief after most paperbacks. I agree with the poster who suggested including a map of the Avenue with the names of the people who lived in the houses. That would help a lot.

Stylistically I found the use of so many complicated linguistic 'tricks' rather trying, like consuming a box of chocolates at one sitting, and also confusing when Grace, a 10 year-old, used the same style of language as the narrator.

I was curious about why the summer of 1976 attracted the author, and what research she had to do to describe the continuing heat.

The heat was a catalyst for the seemingly respectable neighbours beginning to deconstruct, and lose the ability to hold things together quite so well. I also wanted the environment to reflect that break down, so as the tarmac melts and the lawns crack, the residents’ secrets also begin to unravel. I think talking to people about the drought was the best way of revisiting that era, because everyone has such vivid memories. I also remember it myself, despite being very young, and it’s amazing how sharp childhood memories can be. A lot of Goats and Sheep was actually written in the winter, and I remember the snow falling outside as I was writing about soaring temperatures and water shortages!

gardener

Thank you so much for the book which I have enjoyed reading ..bringing back memories of life in the sixties and seventies .
I've been looking at Joanna's website .. It's really interesting.
Even the photographs of the printing process !
It was good to hear Paula Wilcox doing the audio version. She is brilliant.
I too loved " Man about the House ".

Joanna ....you mention a presentation you did, so I would like to ask these questions.......
1. How did your experience in psychiatry inspire the novel ?

2. Why was writing this story so important to you ?

Looking forward to your next book !

Psychiatry definitely inspired me, because of the patients I meet who, like Walter, live on the edge of society and are only generally noticed when something goes wrong. Also, taking a history in psychiatry usually requires me to look at non-verbal clues – the patient may be too afraid or too ashamed to explain how they’re really feeling, so I have to search for other evidence to make a diagnosis. This is very much like introducing a character to a reader – psychiatry is all about showing not telling! To answer your second question, telling the story was important to me because I feel people like Walter (and the patients I meet), are very rarely heard. They all have a narrative, a story to tell about how they came to be in the place they are, and I wanted to explain that in a novel. I strongly believe we all have a little unbelonging in us, it’s just that some people are better at hiding it than others!

Miriam

Just finished the book and loved it. Reading it in February I could feel the heat of the long hot summer coming off the pages. I loved the way we gradually got to know more about all the residents and the way information was gradually brought to light. It is so true that children pick up on things we adults think we are clever enough to conceal from them.
Does Joanna have plans for another book? I would imagine a sequel would be difficult but will look forward to reading whatever she publishes next. I will recommend this to all my book mad friends. Thank you.

I do have plans for Book 2 (I’m currently about half way through writing it!) A lot of people have asked me about a sequel to Goats and Sheep, but I think if you revisit past characters, you have to have a really good reason for doing it. At the moment, I will leave Grace and Tilly on The Avenue, watching Mrs Creasy get off the bus … but never say never!

tinkerbelle

Have now finished the book which I thoroughly enjoyed. Liked the title, how it was referred to during the novel so that you were aware of what it was referring to. Must admit I found it difficult to imagine Jesus in the drainpipe! But then he is everywhere - as Grace and Tilly repeatedly reminded us.
Was this a story you had in your mind for some time Joanna before you finally put pen to paper (or fingers to keyboard!)
Am I right in thinking Margaret went away to give people time to reflect on their past actions or have I got totally the wrong end of the stick?
Can't wait for your next book.

I think I’ve always wanted to write about ‘unbelonging’, because it’s something so many people feel at some point during their lives. Working in psychiatry helped to cement that idea, but one of the key moments of inspiration was the case of Chris Jefferies, the Bristol landlord, who was taken in for questioning over the murder of Jo Yeates. We all (including me), judged him on one photograph, and decided he must be guilty because “he looks a bit different.” Of course, he turned out to be completely innocent, and it really made me think about how judgemental we are as a society, and how it must feel to be on the receiving end of that judgement. And you’re absolutely right about Margaret. I think she left The Avenue in order to ponder over who might be guilty, but also to give everyone time to think about the part they played in Walter’s victimisation.

merlotgran

I really enjoyed this book and agree with the comments made by others so won't repeat them but would like to ask Joanna if Grace and Tilly's conviction that Jesus was not just 'everywhere' but lurking in their community was inspired by Mary Hayley Bell's book, (and subsequent film and musical) Whistle Down The Wind?

I haven’t actually heard of that story, so I wasn’t inspired by it, but I will definitely look it up, thank you!

tiggers

Thoroughly enjoyed reading your first book Joanna. It held my interest, from start to finish. A brilliant title and concept for a book. Have already recommended it to friends.

Are you happy to share some clues as to the subject matter of your second book? I am looking forward to reading it. I do like your style of writing.

Thank you again Gransnet for giving me the opportunity to read such a page-turner.

That’s so lovely to hear, thank you! I’m currently writing Book Two, and (amongst other things), it’s about growing old, the importance of a small act of kindness, and they echo we all leave behind in the world.

nonnanna

Thank you for my copy Gransnet. I thoroughly enjoyed the whole experience. The story made me think of 'Lord of the Flies' in suburbia. The style of writing and the descriptions often made me grin out loud. Like other readers I too was left needing a little more information about Mrs Creasy's disappearance and return. Think I missed something here! Can you enlighten us please Joanna?

SPOILER ALERT!

Aha, the mysterious Mrs Creasy! When I first started writing, I knew the story was going to be about the neighbours’ reaction to her disappearance, rather than the disappearance itself. However, I did leave a few clues in there to what might have happened … at first, we wonder if Margaret didn’t leave of her own volition (especially with the misunderstanding of the shoes by the canal). She knew all the neighbours’ secrets (because they trusted her, and perhaps babbled on a bit more than they should have done – especially Dorothy), and there is the suggestion that one of them might have murdered her. However, at the end of the story, DI Hislop tells us that Margaret has reported to a police station to say that she’s safe and well and just needed to ‘work things out’. The police think this is slang for needing a bit of space, but the neighbours (and the reader), know that she (literally) needed to work out who had started the fire, and whether Walter had, in fact, taken the baby. Margaret had all the information she needed to come to the right conclusion. DI Hislop also tells us that Margaret intends to visit the police station to have a ‘little chat’ with them … so she has every intention of spilling the beans. At the end of the book, all the neighbours wait for her return, and also wait to be judged (by Margaret, society and the police), as they themselves, have judged others all the way through the story. We know now that Dorothy started the fire (from the tea towel clues), and that Mrs Morton took Grace as a baby … but, as Grace quite rightly says, “it could have been any one of them.” They’re all as guilty as each other!

Gagagran

I found the two girls the best bit of this book and laughed out loud at some of their conversations and antics. It also illustrated how much freedom 10-year olds had in 1976 compared to now. You could not imagine two young girls going round knocking at neighbours' doors these days let alone chatting to them as these two did.

The details of 1970s products were spot on and I would like to ask Joanna if they were from research, anecdote or memory?

I did find it hard to engage with the adult characters and would have hated to live in the claustrophobic, small minded and intolerant street described. It does not reflect my memories of life in 1976 at all. Thankfully.

It was a bit of a mixture of all three! Although I was very young, I have extremely vivid memories of the drought, which helped with the story. In addition to that, whenever I mentioned 1976, people gave me wonderful anecdotes about what they remembered. I think these are far more useful than traditional research, because they’re so much more colourful. However, I did have to check TV schedules and music, and when different chocolate bars were manufactured!

DavidH22

For me Ms Cannon has vividly created a time I remember especially well. By liberally sprinkling the story with the sounds, smells and tastes of the 1970s I felt I had been taken back there in a time machine. I could see and taste the Jamaica ginger cake. Lovely. The plot is fast-paced, full of intrigue and left me wondering how it would all work out in the end which was brilliant. I loved all the complications of the characters, each with their secrets, some much darker than others but all told with much humour. I thoroughly enjoyed the whole book.
A couple of questions if I may: Most of the characters are carrying guilty consciences, is this how you see people in real life? Has your work in psychiatry influenced your writing? And lastly why does battenburg cake not get a mention?

I’m not sure that I see everyone as having a guilty conscience (although many of us do!), but more that we’re all “different” in some way. Most people are very keen to go along with the herd (excuse the pun!) and not stand out for any reason, so we adapt our behaviour slightly in order to be accepted by those around us (something we start to do from Grace’s age). However, there are many people who only have one version of themselves to present, as we see with Walter, and that version might not be one society is willing to accept. Working in psychiatry, I meet many people who are pushed to the periphery in a community, because they aren’t able to blend in with everyone else, so my job definitely helped me to see how this affects individuals. Also, it made me appreciate that everyone has a narrative, a story to tell, and the most interesting stories often come from those at the edge. And I do apologise about the Battenberg. This will be rectified in Book 2!

grandma60

I'm about 1/4 through this book and really enjoying it. The story is really intriguing making it hard to put down. Best of all though are the memories of 1976 that it brings back. My son was born in December 1975 and we moved into a new build house in the spring of 1976. The heat made the new plaster crack and the newly laid turf in the front garden died as we were not allowed to water it. There was talk of stand -pipes as well. DS was a very grumpy baby as the heat was unbearable.
Did the author have a personal reason for choosing this year?

I’m so glad it brought back a lot of memories! I chose 1976, because I needed a catalyst to break down the neighbours’ seemingly ordinary facades – and heat is such a great catalyst. We all behave very differently in hot weather, and I think people find it difficult to hold things together as well. Also, the book is about communities (and the power of communities), and the 70s was such a turbulent decade, when our idea of communities was changing. However, in the middle of all this chaos, was a seemingly endless summer, when we all had to pull together to get through it. So the time really leant itself to the themes of the book.

Waveney

I was so excited to get my first ever book from G.N. that I have already read it! I will be careful not to include spoilers for those currently reading it. I had completely forgotten the long, hot summer of 1976 and the memories all came flooding back as I read -it was my second year of teaching in a primary school, no-one wore uniform ( I taught in jeans and the ubiquitous cheesecloth), and I managed to kill gerbils over a weekend having left them in a mobile classroom!
I was initially thrown by the two 'voices' the author used, but as the tale unravelled it deepened the story. I would be interested to know why the author chose this device.
I enjoyed the story, and didn't predict the conclusion!

I’m so glad you liked the structure! I was originally going to have Grace narrate the whole book, but it soon became clear that all the different characters needed to tell their own stories. Firstly, because for Grace to know everything would require a lot of eavesdropping (which would be contrived), and secondly, because the other residents on The Avenue had such strong voices in my own head, I decided they needed to be heard.