Top up fees

I must be naive but I thought councils had a duty to provide home care if assessed as necessary if a person's savings were below £23,250. No care is free of course and there is means testing if you fall below this amount. When my mother was discharged from hospital, and subsequently nursing home, she opted to go home and care is provided by 2 carers x 4 times daily. She is not mobile. She has been financially assessed and has to pay a weekly sum, which goes no way towards the true cost of her care. We have not been asked to top up, and if she had to pay much more she could not afford meals, heating, laundry and other essentials. I was not aware that the situation you describe exists GG.

All local authorities operate differently and have different schemes, Lazigirl depending on their resources and their political inclination. I have found this out from having to deal with several in different parts of the country.
As I said earlier nobody can or should talk as if their personal experience applies across the board.

AgeUK provide a leaflet explaining how care costs are assessed but I am finding it very complicated. What I did pick up was the LA must ensure that after care costs (at home that is) a person must be left with enough money for their daily living expenses.

If you have been a little naïve Lazigirl then so was I and I imagine everyone until they have to deal with it. I did know many benefits had been frozen and that does affect the amount a person getting care must be left with, but I did not know how Councils are having to get round the fact that they basically don't have enough for the care required. Your mother's council may be paying the going rate or have more care providers who will work for what they offer. It is going to vary all over the country I would guess.

That apart, the actual working out of what she has to pay and what she must be left with is complex in the extreme. If your mother was able to give them the information they will have been able to work it out for her. I feel that, as it is not for me, I must be totally assiduous in making sure my mother is in the best possible position.

As I said earlier nobody can or should talk as if their personal experience applies across the board.
I didn't think I was Eglantine. On the other hand it is often the case that trying to help on here seems to be less than worthwhile as someone will always have a go won't they?

Looking back I actually was only passing on the link until you came in with your somewhat judgemental and politically based comments. Even my attempt at an explanation of what I understand was prefaced with "OK. This will not be definitive but I will try and explain." If that sounds like "leave me alone" that is exactly what it means. This situation is difficult enough for those dealing with it without a personal attack on GN being added.

Lazigirl raised a question and I tried to explain.

I understand you feel this is your thread and that you wanted others to appreciate your helpfulness.

I misunderstood its purpose

Unnecessary, Eglantine.

I don't feel this is my thread Eglantine; no one has ownership of a thread. I do feel it is a "Care and Carers" thread and didn't expect to have to grow a thicker skin to cope with put downs and sarcasm in order to share what I had come across while I have been involved in this area.

Dare I add that those in care homes who are council funded pay all but a small amount of their pensions towards their care.

Well as I'm personally floundering in the complexities of the so called care system Gg I've found your post v helpful but Eglantine to be fair was only addressing my post.

Lazigirl, when you say AgeUK have leaflet, have you actually tried to ask someone from AgeUK for help?
We asked for help with my husband before he was diagnosed with cancer, and had a retired solicitor come to our house to help fill in benefit forms. He ended up getting us some extra money each week, until my husband died.

Sorry, a leaflet.

I think all the information we can gather would help nina. I know the 'care at home' assessment has to leave people with a minimum (which has been frozen for the last few years) but it sounds as if the 'care in a home' assessment leaves you with a lot less if you need help with paying for the care.

dj All info I have obtained is off Internet. Unfortunately AgeUK is overwhelmed these days and there is a waiting list to be seen. Not surprising really when you see what effect rationing care for the elderly is having.

Agreed, Lazigirl. A shame.
We had that lawyer come to see us in 2011. A lot's changed since then.

Well GG I was certainly naive in the extreme! My mothers income was recently assessed, and because the council have to pay towards her care they have switched her to a failing (according to CQC) care company which is no doubt cheaper than the one she initially had. I went over to her today, she is not local, and found the place in disarray. She is very frail and totally dependent on carers to get her up, wash, toilet her, put her to bed etc. The carers arrived whilst I was there and said that they did not know what drugs they should give her. She is on controlled drugs too! There had been no hand over from previous company. They are totally out of their depth and probably not their fault. I was so upset and am sure most people do not know the neglect that elderly are suffering in the community until they are personally involved. It is a national scandal.

Oh Lazigirl, I am sorry. It sounds like the same 'underpayment' system we have here. Like you I feel sorry for the carers in this situation but you must be so worried about your mum.

I just wondered who did the assessment for your Mum. Where you involved?

I am ploughing my way through mum's and have become very aware that, on top of the basic income they must leave her with they have to add on 'Disability Additions'. I am finding every single one I can as this will give a bit more leeway to pay for the top-ups. I your case it might pay for a better paid and therefore likely to be better organised carer.

These are the ones I have discovered but I wonder if anyone has come across any others?

Community Alarms (pendant and bed in mum's case)
Special diet
Any cleaning (if not part of your care plan)
Extra heating costs
Gardening
Any care that social services do not meet – Chiropody in Mum's case
Building insurance - not sure about this but the assessor mention it.
Buying and maintaining disability-related equipment Household maintenance (if you would normally have done it yourself)

I hope this helps.

That's terrible, lazigirl. It actually sounds like she should be in a care home, rather than having care at home.
Whe my mother was in acare home, they messed up her medication and she ended up having to go into hospital.
We refused to let her go out into the same care home, as we had put in a complaint about it, and we looked for another one that was close to my sister, where she was well looked after and happy.

She should be dj but she wants to be at home and I feel helpless as I am unable to care for her. She was in a home when she came out of hospital and sadly I don't think it was much better. They too are underfunded, understaffed and low morale, AND trying to make a profit I have looked at her assessment GG and there are only certain things that they will take into account apparently.

Has anyone taken out one of those insurance policies which would pay for care if needed for themselves or OH? I was wondering how they work - would your family get a sum back if there was no need to pay for care?
Or are they a rip-off?

Why would you expect money back if it wasn't needed? Surely you should just feel grateful. Do you expect money back on your car insurance if you don't use it? Or your house or contents insurance?

Does anyone know - does it work like an endowment policy which matures?

I just wondered if anyone had taken one out for themselves or a family member.

Thinking about it, lazigirl, the two homes she was in that did look after her really well were the nursing homes. The one in the middle was the care home. Maybe that's the difference.

My dad was in the care home for a month; my mum was in a nursing home, then moved into the same care home to be with him. By the time she moved he was in hospital, and died a couple of weeks later.
She died three months after him, so all in all, they spent less than six months in homes.
Hope you can manage to get things sorted.

They always said they would never go in a home, but they were in their 80s when all this happened, and none of us were in a situation to look after them.

At least we will know not to burden ourselves on our kids.

It is a total pigs ear - when I was working for SS it was simple - most of the homes and home help were in-house - i.e. run by the LA.

Now it is almost entirely farmed out to private organisations, each of which has to meet their overheads and make a profit for whoever owns it. And - guess what? - it costs more.

The whole top-up system is a disgrace - families are simply held to ransom - and I always ask, if one home can give good care at the LA going rate, why can't the others?

I would not wish my children to have to pay top-ups for me - this is not what I brought them up for - I want them to have happy lives free from the burden of my care.

By the way, if your relative meets the criteria for Community Care funding via the NHS, it does not matter where they are being cared for (or indeed if they are being cared for) then they still qualify - I got this for my Dad who was being cared for in his OWN home.

What happens if you just don't pay?