Top up fees

Why would you expect money back if it wasn't needed? Surely you should just feel grateful. Do you expect money back on your car insurance if you don't use it? Or your house or contents insurance?

Has anyone taken out one of those insurance policies which would pay for care if needed for themselves or OH? I was wondering how they work - would your family get a sum back if there was no need to pay for care?
Or are they a rip-off?

She should be dj but she wants to be at home and I feel helpless as I am unable to care for her. She was in a home when she came out of hospital and sadly I don't think it was much better. They too are underfunded, understaffed and low morale, AND trying to make a profit I have looked at her assessment GG and there are only certain things that they will take into account apparently.

That's terrible, lazigirl. It actually sounds like she should be in a care home, rather than having care at home.
Whe my mother was in acare home, they messed up her medication and she ended up having to go into hospital.
We refused to let her go out into the same care home, as we had put in a complaint about it, and we looked for another one that was close to my sister, where she was well looked after and happy.

I just wondered who did the assessment for your Mum. Where you involved?

I am ploughing my way through mum's and have become very aware that, on top of the basic income they must leave her with they have to add on 'Disability Additions'. I am finding every single one I can as this will give a bit more leeway to pay for the top-ups. I your case it might pay for a better paid and therefore likely to be better organised carer.

These are the ones I have discovered but I wonder if anyone has come across any others?

Community Alarms (pendant and bed in mum's case)
Special diet
Any cleaning (if not part of your care plan)
Extra heating costs
Gardening
Any care that social services do not meet – Chiropody in Mum's case
Building insurance - not sure about this but the assessor mention it.
Buying and maintaining disability-related equipment Household maintenance (if you would normally have done it yourself)

I hope this helps.

Oh Lazigirl, I am sorry. It sounds like the same 'underpayment' system we have here. Like you I feel sorry for the carers in this situation but you must be so worried about your mum.

Well GG I was certainly naive in the extreme! My mothers income was recently assessed, and because the council have to pay towards her care they have switched her to a failing (according to CQC) care company which is no doubt cheaper than the one she initially had. I went over to her today, she is not local, and found the place in disarray. She is very frail and totally dependent on carers to get her up, wash, toilet her, put her to bed etc. The carers arrived whilst I was there and said that they did not know what drugs they should give her. She is on controlled drugs too! There had been no hand over from previous company. They are totally out of their depth and probably not their fault. I was so upset and am sure most people do not know the neglect that elderly are suffering in the community until they are personally involved. It is a national scandal.

Agreed, Lazigirl. A shame.
We had that lawyer come to see us in 2011. A lot's changed since then.

dj All info I have obtained is off Internet. Unfortunately AgeUK is overwhelmed these days and there is a waiting list to be seen. Not surprising really when you see what effect rationing care for the elderly is having.

I think all the information we can gather would help nina. I know the 'care at home' assessment has to leave people with a minimum (which has been frozen for the last few years) but it sounds as if the 'care in a home' assessment leaves you with a lot less if you need help with paying for the care.

Sorry, a leaflet.

Lazigirl, when you say AgeUK have leaflet, have you actually tried to ask someone from AgeUK for help?
We asked for help with my husband before he was diagnosed with cancer, and had a retired solicitor come to our house to help fill in benefit forms. He ended up getting us some extra money each week, until my husband died.

Well as I'm personally floundering in the complexities of the so called care system Gg I've found your post v helpful but Eglantine to be fair was only addressing my post.

Dare I add that those in care homes who are council funded pay all but a small amount of their pensions towards their care.

I don't feel this is my thread Eglantine; no one has ownership of a thread. I do feel it is a "Care and Carers" thread and didn't expect to have to grow a thicker skin to cope with put downs and sarcasm in order to share what I had come across while I have been involved in this area.

Unnecessary, Eglantine.

Lazigirl raised a question and I tried to explain.

I understand you feel this is your thread and that you wanted others to appreciate your helpfulness.

I misunderstood its purpose

If you have been a little naïve Lazigirl then so was I and I imagine everyone until they have to deal with it. I did know many benefits had been frozen and that does affect the amount a person getting care must be left with, but I did not know how Councils are having to get round the fact that they basically don't have enough for the care required. Your mother's council may be paying the going rate or have more care providers who will work for what they offer. It is going to vary all over the country I would guess.

That apart, the actual working out of what she has to pay and what she must be left with is complex in the extreme. If your mother was able to give them the information they will have been able to work it out for her. I feel that, as it is not for me, I must be totally assiduous in making sure my mother is in the best possible position.

As I said earlier nobody can or should talk as if their personal experience applies across the board.
I didn't think I was Eglantine. On the other hand it is often the case that trying to help on here seems to be less than worthwhile as someone will always have a go won't they?

Looking back I actually was only passing on the link until you came in with your somewhat judgemental and politically based comments. Even my attempt at an explanation of what I understand was prefaced with "OK. This will not be definitive but I will try and explain." If that sounds like "leave me alone" that is exactly what it means. This situation is difficult enough for those dealing with it without a personal attack on GN being added.

AgeUK provide a leaflet explaining how care costs are assessed but I am finding it very complicated. What I did pick up was the LA must ensure that after care costs (at home that is) a person must be left with enough money for their daily living expenses.

All local authorities operate differently and have different schemes, Lazigirl depending on their resources and their political inclination. I have found this out from having to deal with several in different parts of the country.
As I said earlier nobody can or should talk as if their personal experience applies across the board.

I must be naive but I thought councils had a duty to provide home care if assessed as necessary if a person's savings were below £23,250. No care is free of course and there is means testing if you fall below this amount. When my mother was discharged from hospital, and subsequently nursing home, she opted to go home and care is provided by 2 carers x 4 times daily. She is not mobile. She has been financially assessed and has to pay a weekly sum, which goes no way towards the true cost of her care. We have not been asked to top up, and if she had to pay much more she could not afford meals, heating, laundry and other essentials. I was not aware that the situation you describe exists GG.

Not definitive?
You mean there can be more ways for the care system to screw people who need care at home?
I suppose my husband's was different because he had cancer and we had the carers from hospice at home get in touch with us having been alerted by the oncologist. I wouldn't have known who to get in touch with otherwise, or even if care was available, having looked after him on my own until then.
Like lazigirl said, most people do not know about continuing health care. It should kick in automatically, but I've heard so many tales about people not knowing until it's too late.
It's a good reason for health and social care to be looked at together. In fact, the latest healthcare act is the Health and Social Care Act(2012).
So why are they separate? Wasn't Hunt always in charge of them both?
Sorry, no help for those struggling with the situation at the moment.

OK. This will not be definitive but I will try and explain.

Firstly, most of us have an impression of how Social Care is paid for. I will try and explain 'top-up' for home care but it does apply to care in a Care Home too.

So, there you are trying to sort out the provision of care for a parent. This post was not about what you have to pay because the government says that it will be £xxx if you have more than £14,250 in savings and an income over £189. This will be worked out and you will have to contribute whatever that figure is.

There is, however a maximum the council will pay per hour and multiples are worked out by the hour even if you are having fractions of an hour at some times. Still with me?

So for every hours of care (at home) they will explain they will pay £x. The first thing is that they will go to their preferred providers who they can put in at this figure - they have agreed this with them. However, this figure is not what any other care provider in the area is charging. This is because they cannot run their business on this amount. Because it is too low for businesses to survive they may come back and say their one surviving care provider (they did have three but two went out of business) doesn't have anyone at the moment - would you like to use direct payments and find your own carers.

Sounds like a good idea. You ring round and find no one charges this amount. Not only do they charge more for an hour, they also, not unreasonably, charge even more than half that for a half hour (often used for meal provision). In addition they may charge more per hour (and per half hour) at the weekend and they also charge a travel fee for each visit over a certain mileage. So, the SS are offering to 'put care in' and will pay a certain amount. If you go down the road of direct provision you will have to pay the "top-up" to meet the fees I have just described.

What do you do? You could wait for the preferred provider to have someone free - knowing that a) they may be working on a tighter schedule to make the hour's pay work for them and b) the last two went out of business - what if these do too.

So you may decide you will "top-up". All this is before you pay anything the government has decided you need to contribute. You will probably think it is a good idea at first - after all you need the care urgently and the figure plus the amount you need to contribute is one you can afford, even though the person needing care is on a low income.

The government has worked it so that you pay the maximum you have to on a low amount of care but this does not increase so you know you can cover that. However, every time more care is needed so is 'top-up'. You may have to move to a cheaper carer, forgo some care, or what ...?

This is top-up and for anyone dealing with it, it can be a worry and I thought the article might help.

Neither do they care, I should imagine. It makes absolutely no difference to them, and they haven't the time to sit scrolling through reams of financial paperwork. Too busy doing their job, (hopefully!)

At the home where my aunt is at the moment, the care staff have no idea who is paying privately and who is funded by the local authority. I have never seen any difference in care either.

Likewise with my father-in-law who has home carers. The carers are paid by the agency. His carers don't know where the money comes from.