Frustrated with mum refusing help.

washerwoman I do empathise we had exactly the same situation with MIL who dies 2 years ago now at a week off her 102 birthday. The last ten years were a catalogue of hospital admissions with no diagnosis of any note but a failure to cope. She resisted all our attempts to make her life more comfortable and safe and to make things worth my oldest BIL colluded with her as he didn't want her to spend any money on care. As a nurse I recognised the signs of ischaemic change in her as her personality changed becoming more and more uncooperative and DH would often say its juts not my mother she has changed. When she died with a diagnosis of dementia which had never been mentioned before BIL did his nut which didn't help. I do feel for you and I'm sorry I cant suggest anything as everything I did came to nought as she thwarted all my personal help and professional help that I had spent hours organising. I hope things get better for you and that she starts to be more cooperative.

My Mum was like that, Washerwoman, & pushed helped from famiky and friends away with anger. Yest occasionally she’d moan about having no support. I think she was fed up with living, especially if she couldn’t keep the level of independence she wanted. She suddenly decided to move into a retirement flat & hated that she couldn’t do it all ouselves, watched us slogging our guts out and hadn’t told us she’d paid for a full service move. She was so rude and nasty to us. Ten days after moving she got her wish, went to bed and didn’t wake up. She was 91 & fit to the end. As it was a weekend, the Manager of the flats wasn’t on duty so no one knew and we raised the alarm when she didn’t answer the phone. We knew she’d be angry if she was OK and she just hadn’t bothered to answer the phone. I used to worry that people thought we didn’t care but I’d got over that by the time she died as I knew we’d done everything we could. Anger at things she did and said over many years has meant I haven’t shed a tear once since she died 2 years ago & I’m not a hard hearted person.

This is very familiar to me.. 2 siblings with far less practical input than me..to,put it mildly .. a mother in her 90s who hung onto her independence by a thread ..her self care was deteriorating ..it’s part of old age ..and she was also at risk .we had carers but between the visits there was an accident waiting to happen. I wont elaborate but the personal hygiene and bathroom habits were grim..again part of old age ..and there were safety risks. The odd fall, Gas left on Tap running etc.
She never wanted to go in a Care home but there came a point when she became aware that things couldn’t go on as they were and we suggested a ,week.. as a holiday ..to,try it out.. and she never cam e out.. she has become somewhat institutionalised but she’s nurtured fed and has nursing care onsite.she is reasonably contented .
Dont know your personal circumstances.this home costs a fortune but my mum has funds.
It wassuch a stress for me waiting for the next accident, finding,out eharing aids and teeth .. cleaning up , doing shopping, washing and a cause of family conflict so its money well spent.
Do you have a power of attorney in place ? She cannot make her own decisions..she thinks she can but she can’t.
I would suggest if you can afford it to start by getting in a carer for a hour a day ..tell her they are there to help ..they are used to difficult non receptive old ladies..
and discuss with siblings the POA ..and with her..tell her it’s to make decisions and manage things for her ..if she doesn’t feel like doing it herself.. you have to skirt round everything .she can’t see what you see.
Good luck .

I so sympathise. My darling mum went down hill so fast when Dad passed away - and we realised he had been covering up for some terrible behaviour. She would wander the streets at night in a terrible area, bang cars with a walking stick to cross a busy road (the police would pick her up and take her home to her sheltered accommodation and I was endlessly dealing with it at work or home - as a single mum it was hard looking after her and my kids) I'd make meals, put in freezer on days I couldn't call in - only to find she would take them all our put on radiators and would eat them crawling with maggots. She said she would kill herself if we tried to ur her in a home - but was so lovingly looked after for the next 5 years (she did develop full dementia) my sisters and I were sorry we were not hard enough to do it earlier. Why not ask the sheltered or next step residential home, if she could stay there when you are doing the upgrade - some have rooms for relatives and she might enjoy the company and the ambience and make the decision to move in herself? Re careers and cleaning. When you or your brothers call don't stay in take her shopping or for lunch - and get the cleaners to do their work. You will end up angry, exhausted and resentful as I did (one sister lived abroad the other never visited). Enjoy the time you have left with your Mum but do ask for help from social services and other charities out there like Age UK. We are all getting older and these intergenerational problems sadly getting more common so don't carry it on your own shoulders.

That last paragraph didn't come out quite the way I meant it.
I meant that it is hard for anyone just to accept that parents are living the way they want when it is not safe or hygienic rather than as a criticism of you.

That's not easy for you Seaside, that's not good is it .?Oddly enough the one very sensible thing my mum did was give up driving in her early 80s after a minor accident caused by her.It shook her up terribly and she stopped there and then,stating she lived on a bus routes, could take the odd taxi and to carry on would be selfish as she knew her judgement and capability wasn't the same.I very much admired her for that.Forward a decade and she whenher garden umbrella blew into next doors garden, and rather than wait for them to get home,there's no way round the side ,she scales over the hedge,then nearly kills herself trying to get back !I think also she experienced my dad driving far longer than he was fit to,and that made her resolve not to be a danger to the public.
Sounds a bit drastic but when DHs aunt's driving deteriorated to the point she was gaining notoriety in the village DH had a quiet word with the GP,who at her next appointment advised her not to drive,the DVLA was informed and the new car sold all very quickly.She accepted it from the doctor,but wouldn't have done from family.

My mother is like this too. If you find the way to overcome stubbornness, let me know.
The worst was that my mother refused to stop driving and got cross if there was any mild suggestion that she should consider it. She lost all sense of perspective about it. She told me that she was better driving because when she walked she fell over but she didn't when she was driving. This was after she had lost most of the use in one hand. Thankfully a cleaner she had at the time borrowed her car and it ended up impounded and I persuaded Mum to sell it rather than pay the impound fees.
Her stubbornness now is about money. She was upset one day that she might have to move. For once she was open about her finances and I realised that she was only about £50-£100 short but when I offered to help she turned nasty. I didn't speak to her for a while and when I did I made her promise to let me help rather than move (she has moved 4 times since she was 85 and it is too much for her to do it now and she will end up somewhere horrible). She did but I know that she won't. She will just cut down on her carers instead.
It is hard for you to accept that she is living the way she chooses. Independence becomes so important when people get older and even minor transgression as seen as an attack on that.

Tell her if she doesn't accept help in keeping her home clean that eventually the social services will step in and remove her choices altogether - they'll probably declare her incompetent to make her own decisions. That would be much worse for an independent-minded person than just compromising on a few hours cleaning. Personally I think it should be her choice if she wants to live in a dirty hovel - it's her home and her life. BUT it is actually true that the authorities can intervene and overrule and it's only fair that she takes that fact into account.

So sorry about this - so much like my late MIL. Her behaviour was almost exactly the same. She needed help but didn't want help and this turns your relationship into a battle.
We resorted to 'secret cleaning' when we put the kettle on but even this had to be abandoned. Her previous vibrant nature turned into aggression.
Due to too may falls she had to go into a home, she had two types of dementia. She was looked after and was safe but never really settled. It has to said that her death was a release for her and a relief for us. If you were French I'd say 'bon courage' as you may well have to go down the same route which is certainly not the easy way out - but it can put your mind at rest about her welfare.

This is scary stuff because I know full well I shall be just the same. Isn't it what we all fear, losing control and not being able to cope? No wonder elders prefer to struggle.

I had tussles with my lovely dad, he couldn't see and I could not prevent him driving, he refused help and although I had thought ahead, and could have had a little bungalow in the garden here for him...........he wouldn't leave his golf club and friends there.

He was strong willed and independant to the very end, as I hope I shall be, but how to protect my poor kids from all that?

I take my hat off to all those coping with this.

Oh dear this is very hard, I am in a similar situation, my mum at 86 is very independent, but has a heart condition, deaf , and Maculer degeneration, but continues to drive ! No matter what we say and do, she will not accept help, she goes to hospital appointments on her own, then complains because it's too much for her and it makes her ill.I'm an only one, so find it very difficult, thank goodness my husband is supportive.I don't have any answers for you apart from to say I think you should take matters into your own hands, when need be, otherwise the consequences could be disastrous, and things could be made even more difficult for you all .Good luck

I would have loved the opportunity to leave my mum to get on with it. I needed to, but never got the chance because she wouldn't have the aids and help she needed so I knew she would be safe.
She ended up unable to leave the house, because she wouldn't have a ramp outside for her wheelchair. She couldn't even sit in her garden once I was unable to virtually lift her out of the door anymore. Its such a terrible pity, I think.

One of us pops in MOST days when we are around, but not every day.My brother lives closest and literally sometimes just drops her paper in.I drive past on my way home as that's my route but often decide not to go and just give her a quick call in the evening ,so we're hardly trying to run her life.Until recently she still and friends calling in but and a good social life through church and a society.But the reality is her friends have either died,or gone into homes.One I take her to visit if she wants.But whilst she will say on the one hand you don't need to come I'm fine,the next time you go she will say I didn't talk to a single soul all day yesterday-which even if not intended makes me feel guilty.
And if trying to help her get safely out of the car on a busy road is interfering and fussing,or quickly grabbing the supermarket trolley because she won't let you push it but has just rammed it into someone's car ,well then we're interfering and fussing.She almost fell under a car the other week because she leapt out before my brother had completed parking outside church ,as he gives her a lift.He was furious, and rightly so.She's just incredibly stubborn.I'm taking note,and vowing to accept a helping hand graciously !
No one expects a pristine house but no one would want to eat from the fridge in the state it was in the other day,added to mouse droppings in the pantry due to inadequately stored food.Not to mention the state of the bathroom at times.Its just about food hygiene,and basic safety .Her eyesight is deteriorating rapidly.And she will even say my eyes have got a lot worse lately,but if you say I know mum it's rubbish and that's why perhaps a little help may be appropriate now ?In the next breath she will say I'm fine,I'm not like Mrs so and so.She's just lazy /stopped trying to do things etc.
Missadventure you've summed it up perfectly. Thank you.
Both my brothers are away soon,and on return are going to replace the kitchen and move the boiler which means no heating and hot water for a few days.So she is either going to stay with me,or her suggestion is to go to a Premier Inn for a little holiday.TBH if that's what she wants let her get on with it!Then we will see how things go.But as I'm up at 6am two days a week to get to my DDs to sort DGD out for nursery,then a full day at work,plus my own house and big garden to sort,plus dogs to walk and and DH with severe arthritis at only 60 I'm certainly not looking for extra responsibility!

Leave her alone for a few weeks and see how she manages, or only visit at weekends.

It would drive me to distraction to have family members, however much I loved them calling in every day and trying to run my life for me.

missA

My MIL got into the bath, couldn't get out, sat there all day. At least she had the sense to let the water out and wrap a towel around herself. I couldn't get her out either. We had to send for help.

Despite this she refused to have a shower installed, was back in the bath the next evening. The only concession was to take her phone in with her.

Like Misadventure, it made our lives very difficult, when actually other members of the family needed care and attention.

Add to that the endless tummy bugs (?), minor accidents, setting fire to the kitchen! It didn't stop until she had a major fall and end up in hospital.

It was so selfish and there wasn't an answer to it. Now I think we should have withdrawn all that support earlier and stopped wearing ourselves out trying to avoid the inevitable.
Couldn't do it though.....

While giving PoA to my ACs I have added that, if the time comes when I am, in their opinions, unreasonably insisting on remaining in my home, they are to overrule me and insist on any necessary care solutions.
I know that this is not legally enforceable but have 'given my permission'.
Probably the next step is a living will to formalize that permission.
Within my circle of acquaintances, one 94 yearold refuses to go into care and has now signed a contract for care at home. It will cost approx £6000 per month to remain at home.
We have concerns that, given a diagnosis of dementia, the contract may not even be legal but it has been rubber-stamped by SS.

My mum didn't have dementia.. I was torn between wanting to shake the living daylights out of her, and admiration that she refused to 'give in'. As it was, she made the last part of her life, the last part of my daughters life a whole lot more difficult.

I was in a similar position with my mother. She had a coal fire and stone floors and would get up at 6am on a winter's morning to try and light it. Her house was permanently freezing and she refused to allow the council in to fit central heating and double glazing.
She then fell and broke her hip one afternoon and lay for hours, as I was working and she couldn't move to get to a phone. She went downhill after that, neither washing or changing her clothes. The smell in her house was awful, but she would hit me with her walking stick if I tried to clean up. We were getting phone calls dozens of times a day, she was phoning my friends, asking if they knew where I was.
She continued to refuse help until my own health began to suffer, as I was trying to work, look after my family and also my mother. It was like having a fourth child.

Eventually I broke down at work one day and a colleagues insisted I phone social Services for help. It was the best thing I ever did. She told Social Services that I was giving up my job to look after her, which was totally untrue. It wasn't until they saw the splints on my hands, that they realised I was physically incapable of looking after her. She could be very believable.
My mother did get the central heating and double glazing installed, increased benefits and carers coming in during the day, which, allowed me to continue working to support my family.
I was sure she had dementia, but her GP kept dismissing me, until she was taken to hospital with a UTI, (he refused to come out) after I phoned for an ambulance. A diagnosis of dementia was given within a few weeks and we were told that she would never to be able to return to her own home.
Sometimes our parents do not know what is best for them and we have to intervene for both their and our own wellbeing.

Just to add, mum also spent 19 hours sitting on the toilet, because she didn't want a handle fitted, so she could pull herself up. Her hairdresser was outside, looking through the windows, and shouting out (also blowing up my phone with calls, which I couldn't answer as I was at work) she was freezing cold, her backside was bleeding where the seat had cut into her flesh, and she couldn't stand at all when we finally arrived to help.

Its fine to want to be left to get on with your own life, in your own way. My mum broke her hip and decided not to have medical help and to carry on walking around on it. She fell again, and damaged it more, which meant my daughter (who had terminal cancer) had to get her two young children out of bed, on a school night
and go with her Nan to hospital.
The damaged hip never healed properly, which made her mobility worse, and well.. you get the picture..

I did say I was playing devils advocate and I wasn’t attacking the OP personally, just opening the debate. However, I wonder how any of us would feel in the future if our children, or grandchildren, insist they know what is best for us. Of course they may be right but surely we all have the right to accept or refuse help, advice or treatment? Who are we to insist our idea is more valid than theirs?

I’m sure she will know when she needs help and will ask for it
No she won't; she will get worse as she gets older. The 'competitive ageing' is very true, as is her determination not to accept any help or believe that you are genuinely concerned. It isn't dementia or ageing, more a determination not to be told what to do by her children.

I went through this with my father until he was found wandering by a neighbour, the result of poor food and hygiene. As soon as he was in a Home, properly cared for, he regained all his faculties, aged 92; if he had agreed to the help in his home that I tried to arrange for him or moved closer to me, (150 miles away) he could have maintained his independence but he flatly refused, behaving exactly as as your mother is doing.
All you can do is do as you are doing now, so you won't reproach yourself later.(You will though.)
Not easy; my sympathies.

I think it’s a hard one, 95 is a great age and yes she probably does have a strong immune system, my dad used to regularly call in on his widowed sister in law and has said she was eating penicillin bread and meat that was gone off She was also in her 90 s and her strength got her there She was burgled while she slept in her bed but it didn’t put her off she took it in her stride and stayed alone in her rather grubby little house until she died at a similar age to your mum
I can understand why you would love her to be in a pristine, sheltered housing with a warden and friends but that’s obviously not what she wants is it ?
I think you’re doing what you can and although your brothers aren’t perfect they are there to help which is really pretty good it usually rests with one ...As one brother doesn’t let you know can you draw up a rota or even have a morning text ‘ are you going to mums today then I needn’t ‘ or similar
As for the fridge, kitchen etc if your brothers are going to update it perhaps you can have a good clean at the same time
Good luck my daughter often tells me I m stubborn but I don’t feel I m at all stubborn but I know ‘me’ and if I call on an inner strength that gets me through difficult situations so be it

When a parent is frail, leaving them to get on with it just isn't an option.. we explained over and over to my mum that refusing to see a doctor when she was poorly, or getting up to do housework when she could barely stand meant that she was going to have an accident or end up in hospital, but she flatly refused to accept the facts.